Uh, yeah...I'm guessing that our property taxes will not make them feel like they are back home in Indiana! When your taxes are another $500-700 a month on top of your mortgage, your "great deal" of a home isn't so great anymore. I also question how easily absorbed our foreclosed inventory will be...I have 2 foreclosures (2 of several, actually) on my street, where homes were selling for well over $300K plus a few years back, that are listed for under $200K (4 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, finished basements) and yet they have been EMPTY for 2 years! The housing market isn't recovering anytime soon. Many economists don't believe it has even bottomed out yet!

No pool. No turf. No third high school. No.more.taxes!!!!!!!!

I fully agree with Jane. This is the State of Illinois, let's keep in mind. Prior to spending more and increasing taxes in Oswego yet again (and pretending we can all just spend money like Congress) let's see if our situation turns around first. I for one, was shocked when I opened this years tax bill and the taxes went UP! So were my neighbors and everyone else I've discussed this with. Let's give the economy some real time instead of counting our chickens before theyre hatched, or before they've moved in here...

I think we are missing a golden opportunity to teach our children to live within their means. If "we" can't afford it, "we" don't buy it! Whether it is a third high school or additions to existing schools, if the school district and taxpayers are unable to pay for it we should look to creative ways to alleviate the overcrowding.

Read the figures from the article above and go with the numbers. The solution is obvious!! Overcrowded schools is not the answer. Children, at any age, have more needs than ever. If you want children to be future leaders, sticking them in classes that are bigger with teachers that already have enough issues to deal with, won't help their scores go up!!

Part of the reason that the State is in the financial mess is that it failed to plan for the future. It failed to plan for a downturn and now we are paying for it. However, regardless of whether or not you want a third high school or additions the numbers don't lie...we are going to be over crowded. Plan and simple. With that in mind, we need to consider the best solution...to prevent over crowding, maintain a competitive education for our kids. Our school district has one of the lowest cost per student ratios in the state. Fiscally, I believe we have been responsible. However, if we start to get short-sighted, our kids, and future children will suffer. Is there a way to build the third high school in phases? Could we creatively consolidate the use of some of the facilities (i.e. sports fields, gymnasiums, etc)? I too don't want my taxes raised...the answer to that is not to stop a third high school, its to go after the state and they way they fund education.

It's obvious that we can't afford either option. The community is broke and raising taxes yet again will only force more folks into foreclosure. The schools are only occupied 180 days a year. The solution seems simple enough to me, year round school, online courses, larger class sizes for lecture type classes, etc. etc. We spent tens of millions of dollars to air condition these buildings, lets get some use out of it. The prior school board spent like a bunch of drunken sailors, and now we are seeing the consequences of such recklessness.

As for the homes selling, right down the street from me is a home (my exact floorplan) that sold in three weeks and it was not a short sale. Our community has been contacted by realtors who are in turn being contacted by re-location companies looking to place workers in Oswego school district. I personally know of one realtor who has sold six homes in our subdivision in the last few months. These are people with families that can't afford Naperville and are looking for a good place to raise a family.

Comments made by board members last night included coordinating with the village to use old village hall and empty space at the new village hall, reclaiming the old Traughber JH and getting "creative" with our special programs. This is not a viable solution for the long term. The money was approved by voters in 2006 to use to for building new schools so we don't have overcrowding at the levels we will see in the next 2-3 years. We need to get creative with our budget to be able to afford NOT to have overcrowding issues and build what is needed.

I totally agree with KRM - go after the state and the way they fund education. Then go to your village hall meetings and discuss why our residents pay into the school district at a 85/15 ratio instead of what our neighboring towns pay - close to 70/30. That will affect your tax bill the way you want and fund our children's education without the burden on the residents.

So now the home owners are to hold up the cost on the shoulders of growing to fast. It will take some 10 more years for OSWEGO to handle this issue even if the world market tomorrow would return to normal. So what is the answer, spend less and move slowly on this.

The kids may need to only have XY and Z things like we did back in the 70's (Swimming and other lavish things are out). In the 70's we didn't have every thing but had enough to get us into the world today.

I think the MORE is better has killed many in OSWEGO and other Villages, it's time to regroup and slow it down, do more with less otherwise OSWEGO will be a ghost town of empty homes with even more burden on the few remaining !!!

Good luck with "going after the state, in case you haven't heard, they are broke and facing collapse. They are six months in arrears paying their current bills. Illinois debt is going to be rated as "junk". The state has already had several downgrades to their bond rating. The problem is we do not want to get away from the status quo, 180 day failed education system. We have a half a billion dollars invested in facilities that sit empty for over half the year.

Karin, I was with ya all the way to "go to your village hall meetings and discuss..."
I only have confidence in 2 of our Trustees to make eye contact and listen to the residents of Oswego.

Thank You Mr. Walsh for your comment on the dream home last night. He said we all would like the amenities in our dream home but reality says we can only get what we can afford. A dance studio, orchestra room, band room, astro turf those are all extras we either don't need or can combine into one.
Construction is at an all time low and that dollar amount is high.
So glad to hear Mrs. Swanson bring up all the other options we have. They're getting the picture that another referendum's approval is not going to happen, the last election was a pretty good indicator of that.
I have family members in Indiana and it's a far cry from Illinois. Not only do they pay alot less in taxes, they also have lower gas prices, food, utilities and the schools my nephew's attend have much higher GPA's, SAT"S and ACT's. They also have larger class sizes. WOW. If those people are looking for some of what they had back home they have better options.
Agree Janelle without a YES vote from taxpayers again we " CAN"T AFFORD IT "

Can anyone point me to the RSP projections from last year? I spent some time last night searching BoardDocs looking for them to compare how the projections from 2011 differ from the 2010 projections and I couldn't find them. I'm just curious to see how they've changed. Thanks.

My comments concern the actual floorplans of the additions at both high schools. I thought the plans at OEHS were excellent. They added classrooms in logical places and solved some problem areas ( outside travel to the Annex, bottlenecks in hallways, circulation patterns), but I thought the administrators got greedy in asking for a Field House and a SECOND indoor track. I get that the first one isn't perfect, but it's not bad enough to abandon completely. On the other hand, the OHS plans were AWFUL. The site is just TOO SMALL to add onto again. A classroom addition in front of the Field House completely eliminates the Athletic entrance to the gyms and burys the common areas in a hard access areas and creates dead ends/poor circulation areas all over the place. It creates new gym spaces on the far side of the greenhouse with NO entrances, only exits, and NO BATHROOMS. It does not increase cafeteria space (just rearranges the serving area), adds seats with obstucted views in the auditorium. It creates MANY more problems than it solves. I wonder if there is a way to split the vote and add on to OEHS ($39m) to solve immediate overcrowding problem and leave OHS as is until the economy improves and we can build a third school down south. I know that creates inequities between the two schools, but it would be better than the disastorous plans for OHS.

On July 25 the board will come back with their answer. They will also have to answer to the fact that we have no operating money for either. They will need to bring that issue to the table if they go with building of any kind. I want to know the dollar amount of operating money that will be asked from tax payers on top of the mess we're in now. I don't see how they can cut the budget enough to fund any of this. Do we start with teachers, doesn't that defeat the purpose in the first place.
Someone needs to start addressing the fact that we need that approval from tax payers and I don't see that happening. My prayers are with them all.

It's obvious -- school administrators have highly exaggerated the costs of additions to push the board into approving a 3rd high school, which is unneeded and taxpayers cannot afford.

Instead of another buiding, how about educating the students? Our district is doing a terrible disservice to our children.

Robin, how funny you should say that. The gentlemen last night looked at Administration a few times and said they only did what was asked of them. This answer was repeated on several questions the board had asked. Thank You Mrs. Pasteris for bringing up the fact that alot of people will find the community unaffordable with high taxes. $125,000. home paying close to $9000. doesn't make for a good sell. The gentleman did agree with you on that issue.

No to a third high school. The community cannot afford it! When your monthly tax bill is higher than your principal and interest on a modest home something is WRONG. I can't see the community supporting this. I would like to see the board go back and be creative. When Yorkville built their new middle school and was facing overcrowding at the high school they decided to utilize the old middle school for a freshman academy. Why can't Oswego utilize the Murphy Junior High that has sat idle for the last three years? Have all freshman from the district attend a Murphy freshman center. It certainly would cost a lot less than building permanent buildings. Also, what about creating some type of flexible schedule? I know this is not popular, however, Minooka had to utilize it when they faced the same issue.

I was wondering about the next Flex 8 schedule and only 85% classroom usage. I was a teacher and it stinks to not stay in your room for planning, but couldn't we use the rooms 8 periods a day instead of 6-7? Then, we don't need such large additions. Yes, I know that doesn't work for some classes w/specific tools needed. However, we had Adv Algebra in the Industrial Arts room during his plan period. Use the space we have first. Also, PE spaces are only at 85% too. I don't understand that. We do need more room, but we need to rethink using what we have first. With four kids in a four bedroom house, I don't get a bedroom as a guest bedroom. Use the space all day. I like that creativity over going to the old village hall for a class. Bussing seems to make that silly.

Its easy to see at times why we are where we are today - people sit around thinking of what we CANT do rather than what we CAN do. We have been through much worse times than these and we made it out just fine. We will again as long as people start to once again believe in their country, community and themselves most importantly. Dont tell me what we cant do, tell me what we can do together! Amazing to see all the words in BOLD above; WRONG, AWFUL, NOT, CANT AFFORD. Someone did say GREAT however. There is hope indeed.

Solution maybe here goes..... Split the days and go year round. 4.5 hrs in AM 1/2 and 4.5 in PM other half. Go year round and pay the teachers a little more. Every 6 weeks they get a week off and holidays already on books and 4th of July. Problem solved no need to build anything yes the Electric will be higher and Gas also, and teach salaries will need to rise some but you asked for a solution.
Now you'll hear everyone say what, NO WAY! Time to think really hard and come up with a solution that while not perfect is a PLUG in the hole of cash flowing out, and a PLUG in the hole of the kids not learning! Simple is always best, period! I hope someone elected is reading this --- SOLVED

What does believing in your community have to do with paying one of the highest tax rates in the nation? After paying all these taxes we're still broke and have inadequate facilities! The well being of my family trumps any community anything. Ask the people who can't afford health care, food clothing and housing for their children how much the community means to them, not much I would guess. i love these people who think Oswego residents will pay any amount "for the children". I have not seen one person show any concern for all the families that have been bankrupted, foreclosed upon and had their homes auctioned off by "the community". I'll vote NO on any tax increase for ANY reason, make due with what you have.

David,
Since you brought up my " CAN"T AFFORD" please explain how we go about this with the beer pocket book. No one said that changes won't be made, they just have to be done within our means. I certainly don't throw money at my kids for their wants, we see to it that their needs are met. New schools and additions don't make for an education. The overcrowding can be addressed with the options that were brought up last night.
Entitlement doesn't exist. The students are entitled to an education no matter how that's done. The majority must approve anything above and beyond what we have now. The last referendum only approved the spending of more money for schools and addtions, it left out the operating of the mentioned and that's where the problem lies.
The board could still decide to go ahead with building of either but with the needed approval from tax payers for additional funds we can't open either. We will all move forward in a direction we can afford. Our students will also do the same no matter how it's done. Lets give the kids alittle credit, they are sometime better problem solvers then their parents.

Hello,
I am sorry I had to miss this lively meeting. It would have made my day to hear so many people convey the message of live within your means, and appreciate and utilize what you have.
I read on a note about how well Indiana is doing. They utilize taxpayers drive and the word NO in their vocabulary. They utilize their potential in each of their independent lives. They do not expect others to solve their problems. They have budgets.
Oswego's financial planning problems also are contained in other various departments. Times are changing! Thanks to the Village Board we are moving well ahead to sound directions that are affordable. I do not want to mix topics since this is for the school. I want to convey a great cheer for all our taxpayers that are rising up with the word no to all the "Fat Cats".
Because of states like Indiana and Texas ( they having budgets and the word NO) people want to move out of Oswego for sure and Illinois. It is a long hard battle to get to the notion of affordability when spending has been so excessive.
I was wondering that if we have small meetings with the teachers (administration absent) they just might recommend lots of cost saving measures.
Our student's ability to adjust is so important when they go to secondary education.
I am afraid that many people came to Oswego from so many different backgrounds with dreams and experiences that reality has not totally sunk in.

Thanks to all and Good Day,

Jerri Powell

@Jessie -- h0ly cow -- if the schools are our best selling point as a village...we are in worse shape than I thought! lol I would call them adequate. Oswego has a nice feel to it, that's why we moved here. We didn't care for the "feel" of our previous community. It has a great park district, and we felt the schools were, basically, ok. We knew that they were not as well respected as our previous community's, but they were better than the other areas we considered (in the same general area as Oswego). And Oswego had enough shopping that we could get the basics. It was (and is) fine for us because we have no desire to do all our shopping, entertaining, and dining right here. We like to get out for a change of scenery. ; )

But I never considered our schools to be a huge selling point. And the friends I have who are employed in the district felt the same way. For a variety of reasons. The schools are largely adequate. I guess if you compare them to some other Fox Valley areas, they may seem better, but that's about it. <shrug>

Thank You Greg O. Just trying to be realistic to the problem at hand.
Logansdad, there is a solution to the sports and that's sponsorship. It's done at many schools across the country. Plaques or banners can be purchased and then hung in gym, field house, sportsfield etc.. This can bring in alot of money as prices vary on the choice of advertising. There are alot of well know companies who jump at the chance.

Those of you (and Mr. Walsh) who mention these additions to being a dream home-your new board members asked at a previous meeting that the high school additions help distribute equality for both existing high schools (hence the pool). Also, I can't blame the administration for asking for so much! They know that things will be cut from the plans. If you ask for your minimum needs and things get cut, what do you have then?

Hi Karin, it's been along time, hope everyone is well. With regards to the taxes I will give you a short, rough version of what our acct/att explained to us. Lee has also posted in previous threads the real break down and that is very long and accurate so I won't repeat, but will try to find for you.
The $9000.a year won't happen tomorrow but could be a very real possibility for the future. After reviewing the paper work we had it looked as if we we're treating this as an interest only loan. What we did or didn't do was pay for that money from the start, nothing was reflected on our tax bills. Paying only interest or borrowing from Peter to pay Paul has put us futher in that hole. By building either option is taking out another loan on top of what we already owe. Now we have to pay for the operating of either and that's additional to those loans. Since we don't have all the taxpayers we once had to spread this burden out we must take a greater hit. Expenses never stay the same and that will increase, now factor in the building loan and all it's variables, it's adding up.
The tax rate for 308 will increase next year, by how much not sure but it will. The droves of people are not here to pick up the slack along with business not flocking either. Credit Card with an adjustable rate was another term used. The operating fund is the issue of most concern. No one knows for sure just how much will be needed and how long. (continued)

Thank you Patricia

Good Day,

Jerri Powell

That figure of 80 million doesn't seem accurate. Should the designs be approved then AGGRESSIVE buy down must occur.The whole concept of allowing the architects/engineers to do the estimates (for a fee, and with the notion of a percentage of the final costs being received by them) has always seemed a bit canted.
The Construction Manager (either in house or hired) should be doing the final estimates as well as selecting the qualified contractors. Aggressive costs controls must be in place and enforced.Otherwise, 80 million quickly grows to 90, even 100 million.This is a common occurrence and is avoidable.
The power is with the purchaser, despite the appearance of immediate need. Contractors have an immediate need greater than our school district... they need to stay in business.
Now is an opportunity to get the most value for our dollars. For 80 million other districts have built complete schools large than the proposed additions. If they want our business...they have to meet our price...period.
Try stating a 60 million dollar budget and see who expresses interest. You would be real surprised how fast those estimates change and how may extras get thrown in.

A lot of people would like to get a copy of the working drawings fpor these additions. Can someone post where we may be able to get a copy?

I know that at the May meeting the board decided to form committees. However, when I clicked on committee agendas today there is nothing there. Maybe we need to research options now that they have the enrollment projections and see what we can do now to start saving money. YR schooling is an option, biut not shown as effective at the upper levels. What about bulding utilization being higher? 85% utilization is good, could we do better? What about freshman campus idea? Mobiles? I am not sure what happened. All of the sudden there is a decision expected on additions at the July meeting? Where is the parent/community input?

For all who want data both on the RSP and the Architect presentation, go to Oswego308.org, Board Docs, Sep. 27 Meeting, Select Print Agenda, (but don't print at this point),then select Detailed Agenda, and scroll down to each presentation. At the bottom of each presentation you will find pdf. files for both. You will have to select individually until you find what you want. They don't make it easy and I have to wonder if that is on purpose. I brought this up to the Web Master months ago and there has not been improvement.

My next letter will have comments on both of the presentations and a solution that does not require more building. Look for the letter on Patch and local news.

To all those suggesting going after the state for funds, you need to become better informed. The state is broke! Governor Quinn last week cut funds for school bussing by $89 million. The state previously reduced the bussing reimbursement by 40%. It is wishful thinking that the state is going to increase funding for building when they are late in making payments and it is questionable if all of the funding will be paid.

Russ, Good to see you back commenting. Regarding the addition estimates being high it is because of all the wants that administration threw in. I would have called to give you the background but I lost your card.

Thanks for posting where we can get cost breakdowns Leland. I'm still having questions about those cost opinions.For instance:At OEHS the SF cost per new construction space is $124.92 as per Kluber.However, the proposed field house cost per SF is $95, while the remodel cost on existing space is $85 SF.I would hope it would include all mechanicals' and site costs.
$850 grand for artificial turf is still being used as well.That price (provided by MeritCorp)seems a bit outside.
Numerous items can be shopped aggressively.Lockers,fixtures,etc can be obtained at lesser costs than estimated.Remember folks,there is a disclaimer on these opinions that clearly state that the figures are the providers best guesses, and NOT to be deemed as entirely accurate.Better estimates can be obtained by OSD Facilities or Construction Manager doing the figures and cost shopping PRIOR to general bids.(They make fairly inexpensive estimating software that is accurate as heck)That way, it keeps the power of purchase in our arena and not the bidders. Even greater savings are possible if OSD acts as its own contractor.
My other concern with the presentation is a noticeable lack of "green" and LEEDS technology.We have the opportunity to remake 2 schools at lower operating costs and less environmental impact than the cost of one new school.I believe we should capitalize on the situation while we can.

Hey guys, check out my blog today on Patch and see what you think? Can we help the board and administration with the process? Thanks.

There is a solution to get those costs down, but nobody will like it. Three words:
tax cap referendum. This would cause a scramble to make sure the only things spent on are the things needed. Did we really *need* a construction engineer on staff at a 3-figure salary ? why not just set aside 20g a year based on project, and use a consultant, dipping in said 20g as needed to pay them. Don't have to worry about the cost of their healthcare either that way. Beyond that, The state is "broken", not "broke". They could raise money by (1) re-doing the distribution of Illinois lottery by a lower percentage of payout, and pour more into our schools instead, sending it to schools and other "behind payment" areas instead of pet projects, (2) giving the lottery system back to state control, aka hire internally, giving more people jobs to pay taxes with.

By the way, Lee - good to see you out here. I always wanted to ask, since you were on the board at the time; How come OEHS has a huge theatre and not a whole lot of education space on that side of the building ? It's "pretty" but not very functional. OHS's theatre is a *lot* smaller, but functions. If a theatre had been "tacked on" about the same size as the swimming pool, and the space was used for classrooms
instead, a huge population could have been handled....?

As far as OHS overcrowding is concerned, why couldn't Old Traughber be used as a Freshman Center just for OHS once the leases run out? It is close enough to OHS where if there was a need, students could be bussed to OHS as needed for any classes only offered at OHS.