Did you know that Kendall County is the 24th highest property taxed county (out of over 3000) in the nation? Did you know that most counties on the East Coast are lower than Kendall County? Did you know there isn't even one county in California that is higher than we are? If that doesn't frost your cookies - I'm not sure what will!
Illinois is the 7th highest property taxed state in the union and Kendall County is the 24th highest taxed county in the entire United States. (See this document on the Tax Foundation's website for county rankings based on a three-year average of owner-occupied housing taxes from 2007-2009. See this article on 24/7 Wall St. Wire for the state rankings.)
Can we stop this and reverse it? Make 2012 the year we begin! Let's begin educating taxpayers on property taxes.
Our first event is June 1, 2012 from 12:00 pm until 8:00 pm in Yorkville Town Square Park. Join us for 15 minutes or for the entire day. We will be handing out information to help you prepare to protest your property taxes.
It is time you help yourself and your fellow neighbors fight to keep your hard-earned money. You are not alone. Together, we can reverse this trend.
Lisa stark
7:39 am on Saturday, May 12, 2012
Thank you for organizing this, we need to pull together as a community now before we all lose our homes!
muvin on
8:26 am on Saturday, May 12, 2012
Kendall County Taxes are killing house sale deals. People can afford the mortgage payment, but it's the other 500.00 + on top of that. Why? I look forward to this gathering and hope others find the time too!
KMFS
8:46 am on Saturday, May 12, 2012
I will be there! Thank you for organizing this very important "Revolt"...The property taxes in Kendall County are out of control! If I had done my due diligence researching the prop tax here, I would have never moved here. Shame on me!
Stephanie B.
9:04 am on Saturday, May 12, 2012
I'll be there!
Donna
9:18 am on Saturday, May 12, 2012
Hopefully every single Kendall Co. property owner will be there! Let's show this county unity on this one!
Jan Alexander
9:57 am on Saturday, May 12, 2012
Mark, Thanks for your effort. Was wondering if you have a flier we could print out to share with our neighbors? Think it's important to get to info out to as many as possible. Steve has my contact info and I am more than willing to help with this. Just email or phone me. Jan Alexander Oswego
Mark A Johnson
10:49 am on Saturday, May 12, 2012
To all,
This is a work in process. More will be shared in the BLOG shortly. I have been working on lately is what the government actually is doing behind our backs to "Manage" the taxpayers so we don't know what is going on or we don't pay attention. I'm also researching how we can force them to live within their means. Here is an example from a local seminar for local government officials: TAKE ME TO THE LEVY
“The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain
the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest amount of
honking..” -Jean Baptiste Colbert
or another slide from the presentation to the officials from lawyers:
THE BUDGET:
AN ORDERLY SYSTEM FOR LIVING BEYOND YOUR MEANS
PREPARATION, PREPARATION, PREPARATION
PRESENTATION
APPROVAL
ESTIMATE THE AMOUNT OF TAXES TO RAISE
IF ANY PROPOSED AGGREGATE INCREASE OVER 105% FROM PREVIOUS EXTENSION, YOU MUST HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING ON THE INCREASE
LAW DOES NOT DESCRIBE CHANGES IN THE TAX RATE – IMPACTS ON INDIVIDUAL HOMEOWNERS ARE NOT DESCRIBED BY THIS LAW
IT’S THE AMOUNT THAT IS ACTUALLY LEVIED THAT COUNTS, NOT THE ESTIMATE
THIS IS A SUNSHINE LAW – NOT A SUBSTANTIVE CAP SO LONG AS YOU COMPLY WITH THE NOTICE REQUIREMENT
These comments are from a presentation last January to government officials in Northern Illinois. It is just one example of how too many officials are working to interpret the rules so they can maximize their revenues at our expense.
cindy
10:08 am on Saturday, May 12, 2012
Thank you for taking a stand. My family will be there. Posting a printable flyer is a great idea and I would definitely pass them out to my neighbors.
Walt Hines
11:16 am on Saturday, May 12, 2012
I think this is a great idea.!
Now not be to be the downer dog but how is this going to change what we owe the school district, since this is the largest part of our tax bill. Not only have we spent the farm we are in the process of adding on again and someone has to pay this back. We have legal obligations and the majority did approve a building referendum.
Trust me when I say I'm grateful to have someone to stand up and bring this issue forward. I can't afford my home anymore nor can I sell with taxes like these. Who would have thought an 1100sq ft home would bust the bank. Thank You Mark Johnson for your time and effort, I will be there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Brandy Kalsto
11:33 am on Saturday, May 12, 2012
I will be there all the way!!!! Thank you for organizing. It is time we stop this! Please everyone join in and get others to join in, we can't afford not to do something!
Brandy Kalsto
11:36 am on Saturday, May 12, 2012
Walt, I had was thinking the same. Mark, please also let me know if I can help in anyway. I don't have a lot of experience with this type of stuff, but I am fired up!
Katra Knoernschild
12:14 pm on Saturday, May 12, 2012
I'm curious if this is just an anti-tax/use fee based forum, or if there is any real focus on the fact that there has been very little effort towards cooperative economic development efforts between the county and villages. Without a real/legitimate plan in place, and honest effort towards that cause, we will never see a reduction in the tax we owe on a local level.
I'm all for being a watchdog over wasteful spending, but let's be sincere about this. We live in an area that underwent massive growth over the past 20 years. Building the infrastructure to support that comes with a cost. Schools, roads, structures, parks, etc. We owe that obligation, and as voters we voted on the appropriate referendums to support it.
We can't have 40 kids in an elementary classroom, nor can we afford to undercut funding to education with core curriculum looming. However, we can pay attention and elect better people that bring solutions to the table, and not just tell us what we want to hear, only to cost us more in the long run.
Economic development isn't a few restaurants or a single storefront. It's a comprehensive plan. It's examining who lives here, what they specialize in, our housing value (to keep it static), our available land for development (corporate & industrial), and marketing that plan with appropriate incentives aimed to drive our tax obligation down over time. We are grossly out of balance here, compared to surrounding counties. That should be our focus.
Walt Hines
12:28 pm on Saturday, May 12, 2012
Katra we can't sustain increases of $400 to $700 year after year. You're going to be dealing with massive foreclosures across the board in our district. The ones who can afford it now will not be able to do so for very much longer. The ones who can hold out for the long haul will be paying 5x their share in taxes. 40+ kids in a class will become reality across Illinois before too long. We have taxed ourselves to mars and back. Illinois is on the verge of bankruptcy followed by this school district. While the idea of larger class rooms might not sit well with some it will happen and probably much worse.
I have had my fill of this! Enough Already!
Jane Enviere
12:34 pm on Saturday, May 12, 2012
Having lived and worked in suburban Chicagoland (from the far north to the south bordering IN and everywhere east & west including Chicago proper) for my entire life, I don't think that we will ever be seen as an area where you will see much corporate or industrial growth on a scale that will significantly impact the size of the check that I write each May and September. For most of the Chicagoland area, we are still seen as way out there and barely, barely suburban. With the downturn, I think any development that may come our way is years off.
Because of that, I accept that my tax burden will be more signficant than it would be had I stayed where we were, east of here. That said, the way that dollars are spent here is ridiculous. On top of that, I'm sure I'm not alone in expecting that I will be fighting the next valuation of my home. They are a good $30-40K off of fair market value. I'll pay my share -- my *fair* share! Because of that -- I am in!
Katra Knoernschild
1:14 pm on Saturday, May 12, 2012
Well Jane, I'm not content on believing that sitting back and doing nothing is a solution. Because you're right, if you keep saying nothing will work, or nothing will happen, nothing will. Maybe that has been the problem all this time. No one has bothered to do the work, because they have been unwilling to look outside of the box. You are also right - we aren't Chicago, so why is anyone looking at it from that perspective? We need people to look outside of the box - nationally, and consider what may apply in our condition.
One thing our County has over other counties is a strong and widely varied workforce. That creates more opportunity for us. From East to West, our Median HH Income ranges from 98K-55K. What % is unemployed/underemployed and where within each area? What % commutes out of the county? What % would take on a second family income if it was closer to home/available? There is an entire lifestyle component also in that mix, getting lost for those that commute out. What % would work closer to home for the right opportunity? What business would develop as a direct result of a large corporation or light industrial business locating or expanding out here?
Also true, it might be a while off - but someone has to do this work. We need a comprehensive plan. We can't afford to keep pushing the goal posts back.
Paul Lark
6:07 pm on Saturday, May 12, 2012
Is it really the BOE's fault over the years or does blame lay at the communities that make up the District by approving high density and cheap housing, make deals with developers to lessen fees (Greenside comes to mind) and try to grab big box retailers instead of working to develop manfacturing and business parks.
The State has failed, the Feds are ramming down laws that don't seem to work and everyone wants "something" but when the time comes to pay the bill people go nuts and don't understand why.
How about a break down of programs that are required by law and funded with actual dollars from the State or Feds.
How about a breakdown programs that are mandated by law and not actually funded by the State or Feds.
How about a breakdown of programs that aren't required, but we've elected to have because it looks and sounds good and perhaps have a positive influence and how they are funded. (via taxes, grants)
This doesn't include the debt servicing for the $500 million (educated guess) or so that's been spent over the last 15 years for capital projects.
When people start to understand the history, then more people will get involved not only in regards to the BOE, but at the local and state level too.
I agree for the most part with what you're saying.
Walt Hines
12:50 pm on Saturday, May 12, 2012
Jane, Jane, Jane, there you go being all "Green Acres". :)
Very well said, we all just want to pay our "fair" share. These home valuations are a joke at best. You know they'll raise that multiplier until we're all gone. A cold one and a bottle of Advil, both of which I can still afford sparingly. I'm looking into Freeganism.
Jane Enviere
2:35 pm on Saturday, May 12, 2012
Sorry -- not buying it. lol I don't see a corporation all of a sudden deciding that there is no better place to relocate than Oswego, IL! Or Yorkville, IL! Or maybe Montgomey, IL! It doesn't matter if I would like it to happen, I just prefer to deal with the likely reality which is that there isn't anything particularly attractive about moving your corporate offices out to a county that houses bedroom communities with lousy access to the toll roads, etc. Welcome to Oswego! On a good day, it will only take you 25 minutes to find a way out of here! lol
@Katra - what exactly do you envision, since you obviously have an idea percolating there. What types of industries and corporations do you believe would see value in coming to Kendall County? Where would they go?
We can't even finish subdivisions and the Orchard Rd corridor. Ghost town, anyone? I remember being at Chase when the 30-something banker there said, "Oh, it's going to be just like Randall Rd." OK. Maybe when he is being visited by great-grandkids at Bickford Place. ; )
After almost a decade here - I still have people say, "Oh my God! Where is that?" Or, "That's so far away!" Yeah, that one was at the pedi's office in Naperville. A whole 20 minutes away. When people say things like that, I think that makes it a hard sell that industry will flock here in any way that makes a real difference. I have no objection to them coming, I just don't think that's realistic.
Tina Conley
4:49 pm on Saturday, May 12, 2012
Jane, you're such a Debbie Downer. I like the fact that people are organizing and fighting back. We certainly have a better chance of change by doing something, rather than sitting there doing nothing
Jane Enviere
11:23 pm on Saturday, May 12, 2012
Reality ain't always pretty! : )
Mark A Johnson
5:39 pm on Saturday, May 12, 2012
Okay folks, this isn't all gloom and doom and it isn't all butterflies and angels either. I don't have the answers to the huge issues out there. I have a few answers that we can all share but mostly this is about getting like-minded people together to begin a discussion. I've had people from Tea-party activists to Occupy Wall Street want to get involved. We can cower in the corner and be silent or we can begin to find answers to our problems. Yes, there could be pain but there could be gain too. That is what I want to accomplish. This is only the start of the journey if anyone is willing to join in and find solutions for everyone. Join us June 1st. One small step at a time...
Walt Hines
6:35 pm on Saturday, May 12, 2012
Three cheers for Mark! I'm glad we have people like you in our corner. As the saying goes it only takes one, and you're that person. I've spoke with the neighbors this afternoon and good news travels fast. You're going to be bombarded down there, so many of us have had it. I'm glad to see this is a non-partisan venue, we need to stand as one. United We Stand! God Bless America and the home I've worked all my life for.
Mark A Johnson
7:49 pm on Saturday, May 12, 2012
Just to give some background. I live in unincorporated Yorkville in a home we bought in 1991. We paid $125,000 for it. It is 40 years old. We have neighbors trying to sell their nearly identical homes for $150,000 and after 6 months have failed. I used $150,000 as a basis to pursue protesting my property taxes. I found 11 properties on our street with lower taxes. I took it to the Board of Review and they gave me a token reduction($250). I am now pursuing it further with the IL PTAB-property tax appeal board in Springfield. Kendall County says my home is worth $210,000. I am seeking valuation of $150,000. Even with the $250 reduction my taxes went up over $100. If my home valuation dropped to $150,000 from the $200,000 that would mean -25%. This would mean my taxes should be $3,800 instead of $5,000. I am awaiting the State's decision.
Jane Enviere
11:24 pm on Saturday, May 12, 2012
Good luck, Mark! They are absolutely off their rockers on so many valuations! I hope you'll let us know how it goes!
Anon J
11:36 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012
Since you've been to the board of review I'm sure you already know this but the 2011 assessment is as of January 1st and is based on sales data from 2008, 2009 and 2010. Its not unlikely that your home could be worth in the realm of $150k today but by the time the assessment catches up with today's market (in 2014-2015) your's will not be the only one coming down and you most likely will see no tax relief as a result of the decreasing assessment.
TC
11:39 pm on Saturday, May 12, 2012
I'm in the middle of sueing the county over my taxes. The states atty has asked for 2 continuances. I'm thinking they are hoping I will go away!! No chance!!!
Walt Hines
6:22 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012
Mark, we did the same as you years ago and it worked. The only problem is they started to jump right back up there again and now I find myself in another mess. They have me appraised at $228,000. on 1100sq ft in B.H., no way. Same house next to me is appraised $50,000. less., back to appealing again.
TC did you go at this alone in court or do you have an attorney. Would you be able to share a little more, if not I understand the court thing. Right now the budget leaves me no wiggle room for an attorney, but I'd get a 3rd job to fight the crows. This is one reason why I think they get away with this, because they know people will just complain and that's it. I'm looking forward to this rally, maybe they'll get the idea we've all had enough. Like Jane said if we were only paying our fair share, but that's never been the case, EVER! Maybe I still have a chance at saving the homestead for a little while longer, that's until the school raises me again next year. Mr. Maher from Oswego Assessors office, you sir need to give us some straight answers and what type of math you use.
My neighbors brought up the idea of getting some law students involved and maybe they could help us out. They were able to get some innocent people out of prison, maybe they could save us. Doesn't hurt to try and it would sure cost less. I'm happy to see that were not sitting back and doing nothing!
Greg O'Neil
11:10 am on Monday, May 14, 2012
Walt,
Walt
FYI there is a company in Barrington that will review your assessment and fight it (if warranted) for a percentage of the first years reductions. He looked at my situation and did not think it would be worthwhile this year. He said to check back in a year or two. If he tales your case it won't cost you anything up front.
TC
2:05 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012
Walt, so I am handling the case myself. Here is the process.... First, you are required to try and appeal your taxes first via the Board of Review. This, in my opinion, is a joke. I did twice and was given bogus reasons as to they not giving me relief. After they deny your appeal you have 2 options. One is to appeal to PTAB (Property Tax Appeal Board) in Springfield or file what is called a Tax Complaint. The tax complaint is the court case. Basically you are suing the County accessors office. The documents are available on the circuit clerks site under tax complaint. Or you can Google "Kendall county property tax complaint". The filing fee was around $95.00. You submit your case paperwork with your fee and you represent yourself in front of the judge. You certainly can have formal representation but it is not necessary. I would suggest that you pay for an appraisal so you have proof of your homes worth. If you need assistance with the paperwork, let me know. Good luck!!
Walt Hines
5:56 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012
Thank You Greg and T.C!!
Greg would you mind sharing the name of the company in Barrington. I work 2 jobs to keep the mansion roof over my families head so this sounds like the way to go. :)
T.C. I so appreciate your time as well. What a process to go through, sounds like they want you to jump hoops and then give up. I'll say my prayers for you, give em hell.
I'll pay my taxes, just want to pay my fair share. This should be a criminal act, no different than jacking up the sticker price of an item once you get to the register. What a screwed up system!!!
Greg O'Neil
7:16 am on Friday, May 18, 2012
Sorry I didn't see your post sooner Walt. This Company does both corporate and residential tax work, they take 40% of the first years tax savings for their fee, no money required up front. There must be a fair amount of evidence that you are over assessed or they will not take your case. They represented an entire sub-division in S. Kendall County. Remember, of course you are being over taxed, but you may or may not be over assessed. Good luck and I really hope you can get some relief. I hope to see you at the Taxpayer Revolt on June 1.
5
Greg O'Neil
7:18 am on Friday, May 18, 2012
The name is Barron Corporate Tax Solutions
Todd Barron
630-942-8100
Brandy Kalsto
7:08 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012
The law student idea is great!
Mark A Johnson
8:38 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012
Can someone get me a phone number/names of this law group that we can ask if they would be willing and we could then put into our flyers? You can use this email to contact me: kendallcounty@gmail.com. Here is a beginning of a list to help people fight their tax bill:
Things you can do to try to reduce your property taxes:
Scream at your spouse & kids
Protest to county by yourself
Protest to state by yourself
Pay someone to help you(there are people in business who will fight for you for 1/2 of whatever they save you the first year)
Write letters to government officials
Stand united so the county/state MUST do something(power in numbers)
Sue the county
Do nothing and continue to pay
Do nothing and refuse to pay(lose your home)
Pay under protest(still have to pay)
Create a property tax-free zone at your address(SWAG)
Anyone have thoughts - throw them out here!!!
Dan B.
8:51 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012
The real problem comes from the "if you build it, they will come" philosophy. If you build new subdivisions, commmercial development will come and with that, new taxes. If you are corporate America, what is the business sense in opening a brand new storefront adjacent to a 1/5 full subdivision with building pads grassed over? That doesn't absolve the taxpayers from funding the new MANDATED schools that come with each subdivision and therefore Joe Taxpayer is responsible for it. What do I mean by mandated? Has anyone here ever been through the annexation process? It's a laugher, believe me. You present your subdivision plan to the Village Board and they pick it apart and add things left and right. Road widenings, new traffic signals, new schools, detention basins (which require the time and cost of Village maintenance crews)...the whole 9 yards. And when approved (a multi-year process), the Village begins spending as if the lots are already sold. Which...after 2007/2008...didn't happen. So who pays for all of the maintenance, roads, schools, etc. when the lots don't sell? YOU DO.
If you are angry, you should organize. If you are looking for someone to blame, look for anyone on your Village Board who participated on the Economic Development Committee during the mid-2000s and vote them out for reckless expansion and spending.
Mark A Johnson
9:30 am on Sunday, May 13, 2012
Dan,
I do not disagree with your comment whatsoever. This BLOG is about property taxes and what people can do to fight their tax. You have touched on the bigger problem and that includes many other things too. I have researched this for many, many years and have always been dragged into the "bigger picture" and ultimately ended up frustrated and a quitter. I hope to help people understand the property tax, how it is calculated, what logic goes into it, how to fight for yourself, what tools are available for the taxpayer, and maybe try to show what lies in our future. To run a marathon requires taking that first step. I love to relate to an old story about two best friends on a camping trip. A hungry bear comes into camp charging right at them. One guy sits down and puts on his gym shoes. The other friend said, "Why are you doing that? You can't outrun the bear." The friend just looks at him and says, "I don't have to outrun the bear. I only have to outrun you." That's how we begin this journey. Many people haven't even tried to fight their taxes because they think it is too difficult or they don't have the time or they think they will lose anyway. If you are one who does the research and puts up a credible fight - you are the one who wins. Maybe we begin that marathon by taking that first step. And a quote from that famous person known as Anonymous: Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending.
Bret
7:37 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
Thank you. Mark
Dan B.
12:40 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012
Mark,
This is an excellent blog idea, btw.
Mark A Johnson
1:59 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012
I guess I am not sure what a BLOG really is but maybe others who have winning moments in beating the property tax game will chime in. Here are some links to the Kendall County property tax database. If you want info on your home or homes similar to yours, then this is a place to begin: http://www.co.kendall.il.us/. You then pick "Property Tax Inquiry" and begin selecting the information you want. If you have your PIN(Property Index Number-found on your tax bill/assessment) you can enter it. If you have a last name or address you can use them. This website isn't always available and isn't the easiest to use but it is almost everything you need to get anyone's property tax information.Here is a direct link:
http://taxinquiry.co.kendall.il.us/forms/search.aspx.
As of 2:00 pm Sunday, 5/13 it is currently not working - maybe being updated? When it is working again I will help you find some information to be prepared for when the Taxman cometh...
Mark A Johnson
2:21 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012
Some wonder why their taxes went higher this year. It could be that a school referendum was approved or a new city tax. There are many reasons but it all starts with the "tax levy." The KC Record, etc tried to explain the process this last week. I will try to simplify it as I understand it. The government bodies want money to run their businesses. They have to ask for the funds. They are capped at 105% by law and they know it will cost more money to maintain what they have so they generally ask for the full amount. They also know they may not get everything they ask for so request high and maybe get what they actually need. This "levy" comes from all sources, schools, libraries, cities, townships, county, etc. The Assessor's Office then takes that dollar amount and divides it by all the assessed values in the county. This then gets the assessment rate. The point here is that with all the foreclosures(less people to pay) and the property values dropping(less valuation) the Assessor must raise the rate to make sure they collect enough money to cover all the wants of all sectors of government. So even though our home values are dropping, we must pay more to feed the tax machine. As some have stated, we don't want our schools to be cut, or our police, or our fire protection so what can a taxpayer do?
Anon J
12:04 am on Monday, May 14, 2012
This isn't entirely accurate. Here's a better view of how the process works: Assessors use sales ratio studies (these indicate the percentage difference between what properties have sold for vs their assessed value) over the three years prior to the assessment date to calculate a total percentage change in the assessed value of the township, this is broken down and applied to individual properties by the assessor with adjustment as necessary.
This figure is then sent to the county supervisor of assessments for publication and further adjustment to match the state provided sales ratio studies if needed (county factor).
The taxing bodes are limited to 100% of the prior year's levy + 5% OR the rate of inflation, whichever is lower (tax cap). However if there is a referendum in effect they are able to increase it more. See what happened to the current and last year's District 308 school rate for an example of how a referendum can effect a tax rate increase. The tax rates are calculated based on the total assessed value of a township vs. the levy amount, I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure its the individual taxing bodes who calculate it. If you live in Oswego and look at your bill you will see that at least a few of the taxing bodies actually lowered their levies and are collecting less money this year than the prior year. Hope that helps!
Mark A Johnson
2:21 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012
As I said before, start by being one of the few who fights for their own lower tax. From there we must all tell our government to cut the excesses and the wasted dollars. What are these wastes? Believe me that there are many places to make cuts without hurting the kids. If nobody challenges the status quo it will never improve. For now, I am satisfied being the other friend putting on my tennis shoes.
; - )
Tim
4:52 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012
While these are all interesting ideas in paper, they are not transferable to the world we live in now.
The outer-ring suburbs, as they are known, are NOT coming back. Ever. This is not local to Kendall County, but is a demographic and structural change in the way people live across the country.
"only 12 percent of future homebuyers want the drivable suburban-fringe houses that are in such oversupply, according to the Realtors survey. This lack of demand all but guarantees continued price declines. Boomers selling their fringe housing will only add to the glut. Nothing the federal government can do will reverse this. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/26/opinion/the-death-of-the-fringe-suburb.html?_r=2
The hint to the unsustainable track the outer suburbs are on, is exemplified perfectly by a line in a comment above;
"we don't want our schools to be cut, or our police, or our fire protection"
Look at your tax bill, those are around 85%-90% of your tax bill.
The growth is simply not coming, but the bonds issued by misappropriation of investments will be shouldered by the communities that bought into the lie, for 20 years or longer. It is not a pretty picture for certain areas, like Kendall county, but it is reality.
Mark A Johnson
5:43 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012
Tim,
I really can't argue with your comments but if you want to just give up, that's your prerogative. As for me, I have $254 in my pocket already and I am hoping for more if the state agrees with me. It's not much but it's $5/week I wasn't going to have. Glad I fought the system and won. Maybe others will win a battle too.
Tim
6:56 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012
Not fighting against the tide, does not mean I gave up. In fact quite the opposite.
By aligning myself with the structure of the world around me, it allows me to more efficiently direct my limited resources. I'm sure there are any number of things you would rather be spending your time on, than fighting the receding tide of demographics.
Keep in mind, that when you 'win', your neighbors will 'lose'. The discount you are getting will show up in the difference in bills for those who are unaware or unable to spend the time that you have.
There are not a lot of ghost towns here in the midwest, but if you have ever been out west and seen them, you would have a better idea that fighting an outgoing tide is a futile waste of resources. Kendall county will not turn into a ghost town, but there is some serious pain coming. I can say that for certain, because nobody is the slightest bit interested in actually cutting the expenses that make up the largest share of your bill.
Do you NEED that many police officers writing tickets for seat belts?
Do you NEED bike paths along all your roads?
Do you NEED decorative lighting along all of your streets?
Do you NEED public pension plans that are so far out of sync with the private sector it is bankrupting the public budget?
The largest dent in your tax bill can be made by putting all public employees on the same Social Security system you use.
If you do need all these things, you will need to have the tax that pays for it.
Mark A Johnson
6:06 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012
For those requesting it, I have uploaded a flyer. It is pending - I guess waiting for Jillian to approve and put out here. Watch for it!
Mark A Johnson
7:37 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012
Tim
Again, no argument from me. All valid points. But for just one moment, let's try to change one school-based item. School buses. In the olden days farm kids couldn't/wouldn't come to school since it was so far to travel. So we invented the bus service to help educate the farm kids. We still give free bus service to those fitting the prescribed need. That free service may have outlived its usefulness. Maybe not. Could we have a conversation on whether buses serve a purpose today? Could we have a discussion on people paying for this service? Maybe this is a good discussion to have and maybe it would become too viral. But maybe this is a beginning point. I know someone will win and someone will lose. That is how America was made. I just don't want to sit idly by and do nothing. That's why I'm asking the questions. We'll see if anyone cares or if anyone listens.
Tim
8:55 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012
You are entitled to your opinion, but I do not think you will get too many people to commit, by punishing those who use the service, while keeping the status quo for those who collect public paychecks and pensions.
The pay structure of public employees is the single largest factor that impacts your tax bill.
Going line-by-line in the actual services provided trying to find savings on individual items will never result in a significant change other than a lower quality of life for all residents.
The problem lies in the design of the way local governments conduct themselves. Simply passing a law that requires pensions to be based off ALL served time and pay collected, instead of the current system which allows back loading of salary onto one or two final years to increase the end salary. The final salary is then what the future pension payments are based off of.
This is what is broken, and until it is fixed, your tax bills will not only continue to rise, they will rise faster each year.
Jane Enviere
8:31 pm on Sunday, May 13, 2012
@TIm -- while I really do applaud the efforts of the author, and I hope he is successful, I think you're hitting the nail on the head. Debbie Downer, not so much. More like dealing in reality. ; )
I remember the conversation with that Chase employee about Orchard Rd turning into another Randall Rd. That was 6 or 7 yrs ago. And the Orchard Rd stretch of Oswego is basically a ghost town to me in the sense that there is nothing there unless I want to buy some paint, or move into an apartment complex for people several decades my senior. ; ) I don't see that being developed for years, and I definitely don't see it being Randall Rd., Jr.
I've said many times before that there will be no massive influx of people to our area for cheaper housing again for quite some time. It's just not terribly attractive now that more established communities offer an attractive price point. As it is, I don't expect my home to be at it's 2006 value for at least 15 yrs. It would not surprise me if it takes longer than that. If it ever happens.
And if people aren't in a big fat hurry to move here, why would we expect to see signficant commercial/corporate development to the level that we will feel the relief when we get those dreaded property tax bills. It isn't a matter of I don't want that to happen or I object to it, I just think it's pretty unlikely.
Tim
8:56 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012
I think Jane sees the larger picture here, that those focused on their tax bills are missing.
15 years will be 'quick' for home valuations to come back. It took over 70 years for bank valuations to return to levels seen before the Great Depression.
I've recently read that kendall county is trying to setup a 'fund' to build bike paths in town. No mention has been made to setup a fund to pay for the ongoing maintenance such trails require. All these residents see is the initial outlay, they do not understand that there are ongoing costs associated with it. I think this perfectly mirrors the prevailing attitude within most governing bodies in Kendall county.
There was no long-term thinking when the residents voted for all these things that are now showing up on their bills, and there still seems to be no long-term thinking. It seems obvious that the problems that caused kendall counties mess are well entrenched in the majority of voting residents.
Mark A Johnson
6:27 am on Monday, May 14, 2012
Jane & Tim,
I've been agreeing too much with you lately. : - )
If I only get 100 people to show up June 1st and only half follow our lead and succeed, that is still better than not trying. Yes, I know there are bigger issues in play here but I'll just take some small steps for now and work with smarter people than me to tackle the larger issues one by one over time. About a year ago I got rid of my satellite dish(-$65/mo), bought an antenna(+$90 OTO), bought Ooma phone system(-$30/mo), eliminated the kids' cell phones and extra minutes(-$50/mo), and bought Netflix(+$8/mo). With these and a few other changes, I have about $200/mo extra in my pocket. Not a lot but a start. I also didn't break the bank for AT&T, Dish Network., or my kids. If you want to survive today you must adapt. Like I said before, I don't need to outrun the bear; I just need to outrun the others. As Yoda once said, "No. Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ4yd2W50No&feature=related. For the time being it is survival. Then work on fixing the system.
JasonH
11:47 am on Monday, May 14, 2012
No surprise that the list posted at the beginning of this article lists places that are very union friendly.
George D.
5:36 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012
Thanks to all who care, share and dialogue about this and other such issues!!! It's SO NICE to hear/read CIVIL conversation again ... where ever it went!!?? I now consider myself an enlightened Property Tax tutorial student ... hope to move out of state (family/health reasons), but, for now, I'm still here ... who knows for how long? Who'd have thought that moving out here we'd NOT escape DuPage/Naperville tax burden! So much for due diligence ...
Judith Vogt
5:45 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012
The main focus of the problem is the school board. THey increased the tax rate by 14% I don't care about past commitments. It;'s time to cut expenses and that includes hiring people with higher salaries. Enough with the big salaries. Time for pay cuts and unpaid days off for all these big shot administrators. People need to show up at the school board meetings and let them know you have had enough.
I will be attending and the message is the same what are you doing to lower my taxes!!!!!!!
Mark A Johnson
5:57 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012
I have a question for anyone who can give me the guaranteed correct answer. I have scheduled this from Noon until 8:00 pm in Yorkville Town Square for visibility and it fits our needs. The city has just called and told me I must pay $100 refundable deposit and $65 non-refundable to use the park. I'm thinking of moving the site to the bridge over the Fox River in Yorkville(not a park) or maybe even the old bridge over the Fox in Oswego. Does anyone know if the old bridge over the Fox in Oswego requires a permit and costs anything? A quick reply would be appreciated. Also, my email is kendallcounty@gmail.com or another person helping is
jldburks@sbcglobal.net. Anyone wanting to help out email one of us.
Walt Hines
8:27 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012
Mark I would use the bridge in Oswego, way more coverage and a bigger turnout is likely. The bridge should be state property and available to all, one would guess. Sure sounds like someone doesn't want you to go through with this, wonder why that is? Can we say ruffled a few feathers, good for you. I'd try for Oswego, my opinion, but I see a bigger crowd.
Scott Harmon
8:53 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012
Doesn't our property tax cover use of parks?
Scott Harmon
7:49 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012
Mark,
Count me in. Please contact me at d.scott.harmon@gmail.com
Regards,
Scott Harmon
Yorkvillian
9:40 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012
When you purchase a home and the monthly tax bill is nearly 200% of the mortgage there are city and county people being very generous with our money. This spending needs to stop.
Yorkvillian
9:56 pm on Monday, May 14, 2012
And while I'm thinking about it, who now wants to give our mayor, city counsel and the taxation people much more free run with the home rule? Can you imagine the tax levels with less check and balance? People need to keep our leverage.
Mark A Johnson
6:44 am on Tuesday, May 15, 2012
One of the things we would like someone to help with is in making READABLE signs to hold. We would prefer poster board sized with few, large letters that can be read by cars driving by. Keep it clean but use your imaginations. Something like: LIFE'S TOUGH CHOICES - FOOD, SHELTER, or KENDALL COUNTY PROPERTY TAXES. If everyone will just make one sign this will make a difference. Thanks!
Dan
8:22 am on Tuesday, May 15, 2012
You're holding your revolt against taxes at a public park? Irony anyone?
David
8:39 am on Tuesday, May 15, 2012
I certainly agree with all the comments here posted, but remember one thing we live in a very corrupt and truly inept system of government here in Illinois. That is why after living here for nearly 60 years it is time to move on. And move I will I do realize that I will take a pounding selling my home. "But wait" I am going to AZ ,same size home 2000 sf 1/2 acre of land (built new, and the taxes you ask are around $1400 per year). No more winter , no more shoveling , no more assholes in government. If you have the will and the means go . It will always be the same here. Businesses are leaving, Mfg,is gone. Jobs are lost to other states that understand what it means to live within your means , Illinois will never get it. 70 degrees in January Sunny 350 days of the year. Hooray!!
Jillian Duchnowski
9:07 am on Tuesday, May 15, 2012
Kendall County Treasurer & Collector Jill Ferko just pointed me to a document on the county website describing how you can protest your tax bill. You have to pay the taxes first and then file a complaint with the Kendall County Circuit Clerk. I've uploaded the document as a PDF; you can also find it by going to this site: http://www.co.kendall.il.us/treasurer/index.htm and clicking on "Protesting Taxes" on the left side.
Scratch on Patch
6:23 pm on Tuesday, May 15, 2012
Great info. Now I just need $98 to file. ; )
Scott Harmon
8:41 pm on Tuesday, May 15, 2012
Just take out a home equity line of credit from Chase. They won't care if you actually have any equity and they like risky transactions.
Mark A Johnson
9:12 am on Tuesday, May 15, 2012
Dan,
We will hold this where ever there is visibility to the public. We are giving the taxpayer a place to vent. We hopefully will recruit people to pursue other options going forward. We would love to have it along Rt 47 or Rt 34 but most is private property or businesses. Obviously we do not want to block/disrupt/hurt businesses in today's economy and private property could make for liability issues. Public land is the obvious choice. I hope you will consider joining us and help find some solutions. Many people vent - few help to find solutions. That is the theme of this day.
Mark A Johnson
9:24 am on Tuesday, May 15, 2012
As I stated earlier, this day is a day to vent to the world. It is also a day to organize a group of forward-minded people to try to find a long-term solution. I've read all the comments above and heard many more that haven't been written putting the blame on many areas and people. A lot of the points are true. A lot of the points are just a piece of the problem. A lot of the points are so interwoven that it is nearly impossible to place blame on one area only or to really find a complete solution. This day is planned to be a beginning of a conversation between people to find some practical way to address property tax inequities in the most expeditious way possible.
Mark A Johnson
10:05 am on Tuesday, May 15, 2012
For those wanting to know about June 1st. Venting and signs are welcome. Sign-up sheets will be available for anyone wanting to work on the property tax issues before us after June 1st. This is being planned for this length of time to allow as many people to attend as wants to. There are many people with ideas to help but just need a focus point to come up with a valid plan. Hopefully this begins the conversation. Handouts will be made available to help people prepare for this fall's assessment letter. I will post some of the comments/blame in my next comment. I am not finding all/any of these to be the reason nor do I agree with all/any of these. I put them out here as a "brainstorming" mission to capture as much as possible before June 1st.
Please "Don't shoot the messenger!!!" ; - )
Mark A Johnson
10:11 am on Tuesday, May 15, 2012
Join the Property Tax Revolt. Property taxes are killing the American dream of home ownership. Some of the reasons/blame is listed below. Let’s begin a conversation and work towards a solution. Join us in this venture.
• Schools are +60% of the property tax bill
• Property taxes are paid in escrow so many taxpayers believe their mortgage and taxes are one and the same
• The Assessor’s are to blame
• The County is to blame
• The cities are to blame
• Property taxes are killing home sales
• The real culprit here is the “Tax Levy” which forces the higher taxes
• We have legal obligations to pay for school referendums and bond issues
• We need economic development/new businesses to help offset higher property taxes
• We can’t cut education
• The high growth over the last 10 years is the reason for high taxes
• The high rate of foreclosures is causing the higher taxes
• My neighbor who protested his taxes and won is why I have to pay more
• We need a comprehensive economic plan
• Government pensions are to fault for high taxes
• Government healthcare is to fault for high taxes
• The size of government is the reason
• High density and cheap housing is to blame
• Property taxes are a 3-year average so high values take a few years to be reduced to actual. Who hasn’t heard this? Now the valuations are down but the taxes are up because there are less of us sharing the burden. Always another reason from our elected officials
Mark A Johnson
10:12 am on Tuesday, May 15, 2012
Join the Property Tax Revolt. Property taxes are killing the American dream of home ownership. Some of the reasons/blame is listed below. Let’s begin a conversation and work towards a solution. Join us in this venture.
• We have too many police and firemen now
• The court house, police stations, fire houses, city halls all look like Taj Mahals. Is this excessive?
• Do we really need all the SWAT & Homeland Security trucks and equipment?
• The parks and bike paths are killing the taxpayers
• Pay structure of public employees is the reason for high property taxes
• Unions are the problem
• Corporations are the problem
• The welfare people are the problem
• The rich people are the problem
• The Democrats are the reason
• The Republicans are the reason
• The school board is the problem
• A corrupt and inept system of government in Illinois
Mark A Johnson
10:14 am on Tuesday, May 15, 2012
Which of these bullets are true? Join us June 1st and let's build on these, work together, and find some solutions.
M Rine
1:00 pm on Tuesday, May 15, 2012
We will be there. We are hurting like everyone else and the high taxes could force us to sell our home. How much did that new Oswego Village Hall cost us? Anyone see how many employee cars are in the parking lot on any given day? We joked about selling our house, buying rv and camping out in the parking lot!
Kevman10
11:05 pm on Tuesday, May 15, 2012
I can't read all of the posts on here since I don't have the time right now. But, I can tell you my property taxes have gone up $1200 over the last 2 years. I paid $245k for my house 4 yrs ago. In the interim, I've got 4 houses around me in foreclosure one of which was sold that had a much bigger lot with finished basement and fenced for $178k, another one similar to mine listed at $150k and 2 others that have more upgrades than mine "listed" around $180k. They valued my house out at $215k. How the hell does that happen? This county and village is an absolute joke. But guess what?!? I have no option to but to stay in my house because I'm under water and if I do sell I'd get much much less than what the county has valued my house at. Only other option down the line would be to walk away as so many others have had to do just because of the taxes. Ridiculous...
Brandy Kalsto
5:16 am on Wednesday, May 16, 2012
We will be there and I have been spreading the word! Excellent work Mark!
JasonH
8:56 am on Wednesday, May 16, 2012
The school district has been running surpluses as well. From a previous Patch article they projected over a $1MM surplus for this school year and had a $5.22MM surplus from the previous year.
http://yorkville.patch.com/articles/district-115-school-board-reviews-surplus-budget
Now they just negotiated to give it all away to the teachers union.
Rennetta
9:50 pm on Wednesday, May 16, 2012
I hope that all this will also encourage taxpayers to learn more about current laws affecting them. By-in-large most people still mistakenly believe that their individual property tax bill is going to be “capped.” It isn’t. PTELL (Property Tax Extension Limitation Law) places limits on each non-home rule taxing district/body.
While I believe in our individual responsibility to make ourselves informed; I also see an issue regarding the failure of taxing bodies, especially those looking to sell bonds, to fully remind property owners that EVERY taxing body listed on their property tax bill is able to increase their levy by the statutory minimum. Another issue, the failure to thoroughly clarify and explain that even if the taxing body is subject to PTELL (commonly called the taxcap) money collected for SSAs and/or the repayment of bonds (debt service) are NOT “taxcapped” funds.
So a larger district, such as U308 approves a budget, etc and later submits a levy in accordance with Truth in Taxation laws. A “levy” is their request for monies by fund, which were deemed necessary during the budget process, to maintain & operate the district. When these funds are added together the total increase is limited to the 5% or CPI, whichever is less. These are referred to as the capped funds.
Rennetta
9:52 pm on Wednesday, May 16, 2012
Cont.
The amount needed for the bond fund, an uncapped fund, is then computed and added to the total for the capped funds. This combined total is what creates the total rate & total extension amount for that district.
Much to my surprise a few years ago voters in U308 voted in favor of placing a behemoth bond issue on the backs of property owners. The Administration and/or BOE had apparently advertised some non-binding promises about holding the overall tax rate at 5.06 by reducing the amount collected for bond payments and of course with the declining economy that had to fall to the wayside.
For years I’ve suggested people consider bond issues with the same cautious attitude they would use if they were asked to approve a tax rate increase. The back-up plan for every type of bond I’ve seen is always the tax-payer. And for the record, guess who pays for bonds sold to develop TIF districts.
Greg O'Neil
4:36 pm on Thursday, May 17, 2012
Rennetta,
Thank you for the great insight on how PTELL actually works, you're right about the U308 promise to keep taxes at 5.06 being non-binding. They did not do it and offered no apology or explanation. Two years later and they are at 6.66 and heading for 10.00 even if we do not pass another bonding issue. This will create a mass exodus from Kendall county the like of which have never been seen anywhere in this country. Think your property values are down now, just wait and see what happens over the next few years. I predict the only solution will be to dissolve U308 entirely and default on the debt.
ayar
10:17 am on Saturday, May 19, 2012
Cook County managed to pull off a tax cap with their county clerk, how do we ? if the tax is "locked" at it's current rate and goes up no further, money will have to be controlled more carefully - in other words, giving them an "allowance" that can't be broken without a majority taxpayer vote.
Scott Harmon
7:11 am on Thursday, May 17, 2012
Just heard on wbbm newsradio that foreclosures are down nationwide from last year, but in Illinois they are up 26%. I wonder why. The mass exodus? Higher taxes? Aggressive government? Over-assessed residential parcels? Property tax rates increasing at a pace far exceeding inflation? Debt shift from developers and government to the tax payers? 67% increase in state income tax rate? 106% increase in city property tax rate? The highest sales tax rates? Our retired neighbor walked away from his house to raise his monthly cash flow by $2,000. His new property tax bill in North Carolina for his new house on 1 acre is $425 a year. Many people are making choices to leave due to the money grab made by our government. Unless this non-sense stops the pattern will continue.
sarah b.w.t.
5:02 pm on Friday, May 18, 2012
LIKE this idea - the community coming together to be educated and take whatever action possible to alleviate the burden. Appreciate the actionable suggestions we can all take. Taxes are clearly out of control; let's learn together what we can DO about it. Thanks Mark A and others!
mike ellison
6:23 pm on Thursday, May 24, 2012
For anyone who's interested, the last county assessor (David E. Thompson) actually lost his real estate appraiser's license (technincally- refused to renew). The County Board never disclosed this to the public. So the top person in the county was found to have been developing bad appraisals.
Oswego Assessor, David Maher, also runs a private appraisal practice. I'll leave it up to you to determine whether or not he is running his business out of the Assessor's office. And if you had your house privately appraised by Mr. Maher in Kendall County then you have to question who is loyatly is to. If he finds out information about your house during a 'private' appraisal then does he get to change the data at the Assessor's office, or does he ignore it and rip off the taxpayers? Can't serve two masters.
I'm extremely familiar with what is going on in Kendall County and the actual employees administering the process would be the best place to start investigating.
Laura Bee
9:05 am on Monday, June 11, 2012
I just stumbled upon this. How was the gathering? I own 6 homes in Lakewood Springs in Plano. I'm drowning in taxes!
Help!!!
Mark A Johnson
10:57 am on Monday, June 11, 2012
Laura, Email me at kendallcounty@gmail.com and I'll get you on the exploding email group!
Mark
Jillian Duchnowski
10:50 am on Tuesday, July 10, 2012
If you are interested in learning more about what the county is doing to promote economic development and diversifying the tax base, check out this article: http://patch.com/A-vSR2
Jillian Duchnowski
10:11 am on Monday, July 16, 2012
Those of you concerned about government spending might find a project from the Illinois Policy Institute interesting. They're asking residents to send them specific examples of wasteful government spending: http://illin.is/MmWbMb
Jordan Filice
8:00 am on Friday, August 10, 2012
Out of curiosity, has anyone here ever tried sites such as "valueappeal.com" to appeal their property taxes? Given all the work that's involved in appealing, this site advertises a $95.00 fee that is refundable if the appeal is denied. I was wondering if anyone had any experience with sites like this and how successful (or not) they may have been?
Mark A Johnson
8:42 am on Friday, August 10, 2012
@ Jordan - We have been trying to get someone to do exactly what this website is saying they do but we have nobody interested in doing Kendall County. If anyone wants to contact me about doing others' appeals for them please let me know. I put my property address into this site and it said they don't currently service but are working on it...
Got duped
8:18 am on Saturday, September 1, 2012
Does anyone (Mark Johnson maybe?:) want to let us know the outcome of their property tax appeals. I personally got screwed by the Bristol Township assessor, Raymond Warclaw, because I advised my neighborhood to contact him to discuss how he determined his assessed value!! I thought it was funny how there was no exact science to any of his answers. Anyways, majority of my neighbors appealed and received huge reductions but of course mine only went down $4k in assessed value!! Go figure... I am currently waiting to hear back from State Appeal board which will probably take another year!! So I will be stuck paying almost $10k in property taxes for a home that is only worth $220k on a good month!! BTW, did everyone enjoy the 10% tax rate this year?!! Wonder what it will be next year, I'm thinking 12%
Got duped
8:26 am on Saturday, September 1, 2012
Almost forgot, I found it very disturbing that Raymond Warclaw was on VACATION almost right after the reassessments were mailed. During the 30 days in which you had to obtain information (comps) from his office to help file your appeal, he was gone for 2 weeks during that time! So if you had a question it couldn't be answered because his underlings did not have the authority or the knowledge!! Pretty slick
Ronan
9:05 am on Saturday, September 1, 2012
Is it too late this year for me to get the ball rolling on fighting the assessment ? What are my first steps?
Got duped
10:01 am on Saturday, September 1, 2012
Ronan, it is too late for this year but when you get next years tax bill in the mail or a reassessment letter you have 30 days from the date it was postmarked to file a dispute. Go to the kendall county website for the process.