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Progressive Americans for Justice

Should We Trust Romney On Taxes?

There has been much speculation on Romney’s historically unprecedented refusal to release more than two years of tax returns. Romney, who also refused to release any tax returns in his 2002 run for governor, seems to be acting on some mysterious principal that his tax return is sacred script, never to be made public. But the more strident his refusal becomes, the more curious the public becomes in wanting to know what he is hiding that would be so devastating to his campaign that he is willing to be dogged by this for the rest of the campaign.

I have to admit, as an owner of a small IRA account, I am intrigued that Romney has over one million dollars in his IRA account, a feat that is financially impossible to accomplish within the context of IRA rules. The path Romney followed through the ticket of the tax code to get around those rules most certainly is only available to the very, very wealthy. And that is the crux of Romney’s tax return problem. His returns provide a window into how the tax code is used to protect the exceptionally wealthy at the expense of everyone else. Romney has said many times that he pays everything he is legally required to pay, but what he won’t say is that there are different sets of rules for what is "legally required," one which favors people with immense wealth, and a different set for people like me. Romney also won’t say that as president, he will be the one who decides what is "legally required."

It is an issue of fairness. No tax system will be considered fair and supported by the public when the rules are not the same for everybody or when the rules are being written by individuals who are either owned by special interest groups or are beneficiaries of the very rules they are writing. 

And that is where trust comes in. There are going to be big changes in our tax system in the next few years. Should we entrust those changes to an individual who gleefully signed a pledge to Washington lobbyist, Grover Norquist, agreeing never to raise tax revenue no matter how dire the fiscal health of the country, to an individual who has Swiss bank accounts, Cayman Islands accounts and other offshore holdings whose sole purpose is the sheltering of taxes? Should we entrust the changing of our tax policy to someone who seems to think the sole duty of the office of the President is to make certain that corporations and the very rich pay as little taxes as possible?

The Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center report graphically illustrates how successful Romney’s tax policy would be in redistributing the wealth upwards and in punishing the middle class and working poor.

Romney aides claim that Romney’s economic and tax policies would be George W. Bush on steroids. Enough said!

Ron Kurowski

Visit us at:

http://southsuburbanmoveoncouncil.weebly.com/index.html

martin finn

6:28 am on Saturday, September 1, 2012

Small ball Ron. Tax the rich and give contraceptives to anything that looks like a female. Obama 2012.

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NAB

7:30 am on Saturday, September 1, 2012

We have enough to worry about at the state level with lies and corruption taking our hard earned money away

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TLC Carpet Floors and More, Inc.

9:17 am on Saturday, September 1, 2012

I think your being unfair. Ann says your just going to use his taxes as more ammo to complain about something else. Mitt is fair and balanced in his policy. Why would you think he would help rich people be richer. He worked hard , and had no help or advantage from anyone else. By God he screwed all those little companys all by himself. A regular dragon slayer. Go Mitt go. Run spot run. Screw the common working class. God bless American rich. Start another war somewhere were we dont belong. Tear down another company and send it to Communist Red China. They got a great labor union, easy to deal with. OSHA?? I dont need no stinking OSHA. Make my day Mitt. Ford just started its 7th auto factory in China. Whats wrong with this picture????????????? Send Mitt packing.

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Edward Andrysiak

4:33 pm on Monday, September 3, 2012

TLC quit picking on Ford...they didn't take a hand out. By the way GM will open ELEVEN plants in China. I'll buy Ford and vote Romney.

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Katra Knoernschild

6:03 pm on Monday, September 3, 2012

Ford is building a $760M plant in China, spending $600M to expand another one, and just completed a plant earlier this year (source: NYT).

While I do not support sending US jobs to China, if the jobs are to create products sold in China, it makes fiscal sense for the companies to assemble the product in the Country it is being sold. In the case of GM, their sales growth in China rose 8.3% in 2011 (or $2.55M vehicles sold to Chinese Dealers) - source Bloomberg, Feb 2012. Ford is looking to capitalize on a growing market in China, since Japanese manufactures had to rebuild strength after the Tsunami.

So always ask are the plants in China to support China, or US sales? Are the jobs eliminating US Jobs, or supporting Asian production needs?

If you want to discuss US Jobs elimination, there is plenty to discuss - along with lack of adequate tariffs for products manufactured outside of our country, being imported. If one or both of the manufacturers are building parts in China to send to the US - then yes, that is jobs elimination. However, the Ford Plants are auto assembly plants for Chinese production/use.

BTW - Romney took a bailout at Bain, while eliminating US jobs.

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russ harrison

8:03 pm on Monday, September 3, 2012

What happens if China decides not to renew the arrangement with Ford? What happens if the nationalize the plants? They've done it to German companies, Italian companies, and Dutch companies...none of which had an international debt as huge as what the current US to China burden is for us.
China is still learning the ways of business. They avoided complicated workouts and buybacks, credit swaps and poison pill tactics. Instead...they concentrated on cash. And when US "slicky boys" came courting that cash, China played them for the arrogant fools they were...and those arrogant American "slicky boys" got their butts in a bind. And we...the working class American and our hard earned tax dollars, are continuing to bail them out. If we stop, we are weakened to the point that China calls our shots for us. If we continue, then we get bled just enough to benefit the Chinese but not enough to kill us. The folks that got us into this situation? Well...there were quite a few, including Bain and Company with Willard Mitt Romney at the helm. Goldman "Government" Sachs had a lot to do with it, as did big oil (Well off Chinese were driving bicycles 25 years ago!). But..its what happens when Americans don't read, don't discuss, don't vote, and certainly don't call their elected officials to protest. Then again, when government regulation is eliminated on certain vital industries (mortgage, investment, banking,etc.) what can we expect...a Utopia? That would be socialist/communist ideals!

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NotBuyingIt

3:22 pm on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

You got your union dues all paid up??

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Maria

4:07 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

I rather have someone worked for their money that one who keeps taking it from the workers and giving it to the non worker. I too would never buy my flooring from socialists

Kerry

9:38 am on Saturday, September 1, 2012

Well i see i will be buying my flooring needs elsewhere.

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JPauly

7:40 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012

Because TLC has guts? At least you sound more qualified than the GOP's choice(s), grammar included.

John Carr

11:27 am on Saturday, September 1, 2012

Good attitude Kerry, how old are you? So are you implying that you will only shop at stores in which store owners share your conservative views? Republicans have become such a laughingstock, and comments like this prove why. What's next, only shopping at stores that are owned by people of the same race, same religion, same sexual orientation as you?

Typical conservative ideology, if you don't think like me then you are wrong and in Kerry's case she will not shop at you place of business. What a sad, pathetic life you must lead that your political views dictate where you will or will not shop.

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Maria

4:09 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Liberals do it they don't like your opinion they try to shut you down, we work for our money so we can take it anywhere we want, learn a lesson if you have a business run the business if you want your political opinion use your own name first rule

Kerry

11:45 am on Saturday, September 1, 2012

What a sad, pathetic, person you are to assume my feelings. You must be a bleeding heart liberal who assumes alot with no knowledge or facts. Typical liberal, angry.

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Kerry

11:48 am on Saturday, September 1, 2012

Actually ,Dems have always been the laughing stock. Just look at your post and everyone understands why.

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John Carr

12:07 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

Actually Kerry I am not angry at all. In fact I laughed really hard at what a loser you must be when I read you post. What facts am I missing? You replied to TLC's post that you will take your flooring needs elsewhere. You determine where you will shop based on someone not sharing your conservative opinion? Are you serious, because if you are that is really, really funny. Should stores start hanging political party affiliation notices so that you know where you can or can't shop. I think your Doctor is voting for Obama, better switch health care providers.

The "facts" are simple, you disagreed with a business owner's post and you said that you wouldn't shop there, like I said you must live a very pathetic life to live your this way. Your party is a joke admit it, this guy did... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDyCkdaSQHE

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Kerry

12:28 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

I challenge you to post a comment of mine where i said i would not shop based on not sharing like opinions. YOU said that not me. YOU are sad and pathetic. Your party should be embarassed of you.

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NotBuyingIt

3:42 pm on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

John Carr, Are you talking about those chick-fil-a folks that tried to shut down a business over their politics??? Can't have it both ways amigo

Kerry

12:17 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

You are a couple of sandwiches short of a full picknick. You make false assumptions and make your self look like an idiot. Your party says they are compassionate? Where? You have none.

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Kerry

12:19 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

Every post of yours makes you look worse. I will let you continue. Dont dissappoint us.

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Kerry

12:21 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

The facts are evident. You make accusations with no facts. Just assumptions. Its evident you have no higher education .

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Kerry

12:50 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

I also will be waiting for you to post where i stated my party affiliation. I will be waiting.

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Scott

12:55 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

Kerry, I'm confused. What did you mean when you wrote, "Well i see i will be buying my flooring needs elsewhere."? It's true that YOU never said YOU would never not shop based on not sharing like opinions but it sure seems like YOU were implying it.

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Kerry

9:46 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

Scott, if a person made a rambling post that made little or no sense, i would be skeptical in dealing with them.

John Carr

1:00 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

Kerry, I will continue because you gave me permission and I hope I don't disappoint you (there is only one "s" in disappoint, basic fourth grade spelling that you must have missed)

The more you type the more apparent it becomes that you have no idea what you are talking about and you don't understand basic grammar and spelling. If you are going to question someone's education you might want to ask someone to proof-read your posts because you come across as being really dumb in the way you write..

"Picknick" is used completely wrong here, the word you were struggling to come up with is "picnic". In order to correctly use your choice of words it could be used with the following scenario. A classroom teacher allows two children to pick teams for a classroom spelling bee. The two team captains go through the whole class and there are only two students left - you (Kerry) and Nick. The teacher asks the student with the second to last pick who they want on their team and the team captain replies, "I will pick nick." (while the other team lets out a collective groan that you end up on their team) See that is how you can use those words moving forward, except you will need a space between "pick" and "nick".

If you are going to call people idiots you also might want to figure out that yourself is one word and not two. Also "Just assumptions" is not a complete sentence. There are a bunch of other errors you made, just let me know if you need me to point them out to you.

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Kerry

1:01 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

One should never assume . Implying about a persons comments can make one look bad also.

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Scott

1:15 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

This can all be cleared up if you just tell us what you meant when you said, "Well i see i will be buying my flooring needs elsewhere."

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John Carr

3:17 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

Why won't you answer Scott's simple question Kerry? Are you busy getting ready for a family picknick?

Also I think you are wrong and it is o.k. to assume some things from your posts. I think we can assume you were not a strong student. I think it is also safe to assume that you watch Fox News religiously and you believe that everything they say is fair and balanced. Have you ever seen the studies that show the people who watch Fox News are less informed on current events than people who watch NO NEWS? Now that is funny...

Kerry

6:09 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

John ,its also save to assume you dont have a clue. You dont know me.

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John Carr

7:29 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

You are right I don't know you, however I do know my ten year old spells and punctuates better than you.

Your inability to construct a proper grammatical sentence pushes the boundaries of stupidity, "safe" not "save" dopey.

You could be the poster child for many Conservatives...incredibly dumb, hyper-partisan (won't shop at a store that doesn't share your beliefs), won't answer direct questions, thinks Fox News tells the truth, and so on and so on.

Oswego Resident

6:36 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

Why not just answer the simple question, Kerry?

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Oswego Resident

7:29 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

No. Do you think the FBI periodically monitors the Patch?

Just wondering why you won't back up your original post with a reasoned response. Is that so difficult? If you really meant what you originally said, then just come out and say so. If not, then explain what you meant to say. Simple really.

Kerry

8:42 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

I will not be bullied because you lack the intelligence to understand a simple post. its simple really.

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NotBuyingIt

3:42 pm on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

Kerry, John Carr has shown himself to be a kool-aid drinker... Be comforted in the fact that the election results in November will hopefully cause him to mellow his arrogance...

Kerry

8:49 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

John Carr is the poster child for liberals. He cant understand a simple post and makes mindless accusations. No wonder most have a dim view of liberals. Now , John before you make more mindless accusations, make sure you understand and read this post. I did not say i am conservative. I am defending you by my post. You have the right to say things even tho you dont have a clue. I always thought all liberals are compasionate, understanding people, at least thats what the news media brainwashes us to believe. You have proven that i am wrong. I dont expect you to get the point tho.

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John Carr

10:11 am on Sunday, September 2, 2012

Kerry it is "though" not "tho". Do you have to work at being this dumb or does it come naturally? If people have a dim view of liberals what view should they have of conservatives (You) when you literally write at a second grade level?

You are right your post was simple, you won't shop at a store that doesn't support Romney, I bet you do like your Chick-Fil-A's though.

You should stop being so brainwashed by the media, party affiliation has nothing to do with who a person is. There are plenty of compassionate (check your spelling) and understanding people in both parties, you are just not one of them. Normal, understanding people will shop at stores no matter the political opinions of the store owner, hopefully you are the exception to the rule for Conservatives.

Kerry

11:59 am on Sunday, September 2, 2012

I think you show a lack of a formal education. Its too bad you dont educate yourself. Take some time and READ. Its you who writes at the second grade level. I have to come down to your level for you to understand. When a person resorts to the attacks and nit picking that you do ,it shows you have nothing left . It shows the world how stupid you really are.

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Kerry

11:59 am on Sunday, September 2, 2012

You are one angry person that shows no respect for others.

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John Spasojevich

3:13 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012

And we sit and complain that no one in D.C. can compromise, see the others point of view, move from their entrenched position, etc, etc, etc. The people we send to D.C are US so if we can't find common ground here, how do we expect it to happen anywhere else.

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John Carr

12:18 am on Wednesday, September 5, 2012

Kerry, you keep implying that I am angry and I am not. Your posts are really quite funny because they are so insightful and well-thought out and your writing style is so childlike. Based on the quality of your writing it is easy to see why you have bought in to the lies of your party. You hear things like trickle down economics, the President is a Socialist, Freedom, Liberty, Patriots and so on and you are so easy manipulated to think that is what voting for Mitt Romney will provide to you.

A couple of questions for you, was Mitt Romney a socialist when he established universal healthcare as Governor of Massachusetts? Who was the last Republican President that reduced the deficit and made government smaller? Do some READING yourself and let us know what you come up with.

BTW your writing has gotten better, I think keeping your comments short helps minimize the possibilities of exhibiting the brutal grammar that you were displaying earlier.

russ harrison

2:05 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012

Fact checking is a vanishing art.If someone actually did check out Bain&Co when Romney took charge in 1990,you'd see a company that the FDIC ate a 15 million dollar loss over...which was better than the alternative,as in zero.Bain&Co was on verge of bankruptcy,but had cash assets.Romney structured a workout plan that would allow Bain to survive but still manage the cash assets.Inside that agreement, (this was really slick)was a provision that allowed Bain to disburse cash bonuses to its VP level and above execs.So,when the creditors,including the FDIC(that's our tax money folks) demanded Bain&Co to live up to their agreed payment plan,and Bain couldn't pay,Romney countered with a demand to forgive 65% of Bain's obligation.Problem for Bain was that ALL creditors would have to agree to forgive that amount.Needless to say,they did not all agree.Mitt,acting in his capacity as head of Bain&Co,then started to disburse massive amounts of cash bonuses (which was legal) which had the effect of driving Bain's worth down even more.He (Mitt) then offered to pay only 30 cents on the dollar for the debt payment plan agreed to with the creditors.At this point,the FDIC stated that "Bain was essentially worthless as an entity with no provisions to halt the bonuses being paid out" so they agreed to pressure the other creditors into accepting Romney's demand.Bain survived, Romney/Bain got bonuses paid, and taxpayers (FDIC) and creditors were left holding the bag.Then he did it again...

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russ harrison

2:39 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012

The reason I bring up the Bain & Co. workout fiasco is to show Mitt's mind set.He has done nothing wrong in his mind.His ventures at Bain Capital/Bain&Co. were legal,as is his refusal to release his taxes.His 2010 tax return is incomplete.It does NOT have a FBAR (Foreign Banking Activites Report).2011 is merely a "projected" return.FBAR is not something one forgets to file as it comes with a substantial fine. His FBAR also would make public whether Romney took advantage of the 2009 amnesty program for people that EVADED(not avoided) paying taxes on overseas income.Here is where Romney justifies his actions:Paying the fine is easier and would avoid public dissemination of his foreign banking activities(where the money came from,when,and with whom)
By intentionally omitting the FBAR and opting to pay the fine,he does not have to make that report public,nor does he have to re-submit.This makes great business sense to a person with Romney's experience.Since it makes sense to him, he feels no guilt or dishonesty.
His stint with Bain Capital and Bain&Co have numerous incidents where the system was manipulated to achieve gains for his company at the expense of investors and Bain's clients (the companies they consulted).If many companies didn't survive,as long as he and Bain entities made impressive profits, then he did a great job and has nothing to feel guilty or bad about.Business is business, but his taxes are none of our business...and he says that openly.

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Maria

4:24 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Frankiln Raines and Rahm Emanuel got millions in dollars in bonuses from taxpayers from Fannie Mae right before the bubble burst and nobody has any issues with it, Romney took over losing companies and either turn them around or shut them down, that is the private sector reality he took no taxpayer money like the two I mentioned above, do the research it's not hard to find. Businesses create jobs in this country so they must remain profitable. this country is about success from failure and not government picking winners and losers as much as you to complain your are not guaranteed success just an opportunity so do not demonize someone for being aggressive to pursue success, communism does not work anywhere it has been tried, the class warfare is design to divide not equate, you can't say someone is rich because you are poor to try to win elections it is totally wrong

Walt Hines

5:04 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012

Mr. Harrison I appreciate your time and explanation on the Bain matter. I lost my job of many, many years because of this scum bag. I could have moved overseas and lived in a tin shack making $2.oo a day but had a sick wife at the time. Romney is nothing but a blood sucking leach who thinks of no one but himself. I find this entire campaign sickening. Here's a man ( I could think of a better term but will refrain) who wants to be the commander in chief of the United States yet destroys the very principle this country was founded on. He will sell this country to the first person who offers him the right amount of money, in his book everything is for sale including our freedom. There will be 2 classes of people when he's done, him and the poor.

I've voted republican all my life but will not be doing that this time around. For all the people who think that his hands of wrath can't touch you, you couldn't be more wrong. Job security is no such thing, not while he's still around. You could end up like me working 3 jobs to make ends meet, great american dream!

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Mike Check

9:56 am on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

Walt, I think I remember your story. Isn't Mitt responsible for your wife's death from cancer? Give me a break. The only companies Bain went after were struggling ones. If anything, once Bain takes over, it gives the employees a little longer to hold onto their jobs rather than going belly up right away. Your arguement is pathetic and not informed. Have you been watching MSNBC? Put your head in the sand and vote for the corrupt Progressive party.

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Walt Hines

3:42 pm on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

Mike what a pathetic uninformed person you are. We were all given 2 weeks notice so I guess that's plenty of time to go out and find another job here in the USA. The time they gave me was enough to make the decision to stay here in this country or move overseas for the 2 bucks a day. Failing company here, now that's being real informed. They moved it overseas to avoid paying taxes and put more in their pockets and they had no problem sharing that info.

I can only hope that my girls don't get wind of your sarcastic comment with regards to their mom. Never once did I blame Romney for her death, we're accepting that God needed her home. What an ugly remark on your behalf!

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Maria

4:26 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

This country was founded on the principle of opportunity, not hand outs. many people have fallen down and they keep getting up. Don't blame others for your woes, the only people that are laughing all the way are the one that are completely dependent on the government and keep getting a free ride on the rest of us.

Scott

10:15 am on Monday, September 3, 2012

I don't know anyone who is saying that Romney has done something illegal. It is the responsibility for any company to make a profit legally. I think what we should take from the Bain Capital story (which russ has laid out for us) is how our current system doesn't work. Romney as CEO of Bain Capital used the tools at his disposal to manipulate the system to his advantage. Unfortunately the tax codes and regulations (or lack thereof) are not being written by working class people to protect the working class. They are being written by millionaires to protect the wealth of millionaires, billionaires, and potential trillionaires. Romney has no obligation to show us his tax returns. I'm sure what his tax returns would show is how the system works for the very wealthy. Code words like "job creators" and "punishing success" are just ways of victimizing the wealthy to make sure they get to keep the advantages that they already have. Romney wants the wealthy to have even more advantages. The problem is that wealth is not trickling down to rest of us.

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russ harrison

12:11 pm on Monday, September 3, 2012

Lets define what a "job creator" is: It's the person that hires the neighborhood hairdresser to do their hair. The local handyman and mechanic to fix their home and cars. They hire the kid down the street to mow their lawn, and tip the teenager waiting tables at he mom and pop diner. The job creators buy movie tickets and popcorns, and they buy motorcycles and cars. They pay their grocery bill and buy their gas, and pick up flowers for special occasions and sometimes just to be nice.
In exchange, these job creators provide services for pay. They fight fires, teach , police and repair. They sell us insurance, keep gas and electricity coming to our homes, and remove garbage from our streets.They build roads and bridges, schools and ails, and they grow food. This is where the bulk of wealth comes from that benefits our communities. These fine people that do NOT receive corporate welfare and special tax breaks.These are the true job creators, not Goldmann Sachs and Bank of America BP and Exxon...all of which paid not one cent in income taxes and yet received BILLIONS of dollars in tax returns.
The true job creators are Dick and Doris Diligent, and they should NOT have to pay a larger portion of their income than the upper 2%. And yet,despite having seen strong economic growth when tax breaks were not so lucrative for corporations and individuals, we have a confirmed "out of touch" aristocrat and his court jester running for President and VP.Lous XVI and Marie, come on down!

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patricia hish

3:07 pm on Monday, September 3, 2012

Russ you brought tears to my eyes! I've learned to keep my opinions to myself but couldn't help commenting on your beautiful heartfelt post. Everything you said is the absolute truth!
You brought up teach and I thought about every single teacher that was there for my kids. These are the same teachers that are fighting for the pensions that they have earned! We have no problem giving tax breaks to the rich and accept the ones who pay nothing in taxes yet we have a problem honoring a pension that someone worked all their life for. Yet with all the garbage our teachers are facing they put that on the back burner and put their students first. My son begins student teaching on Tuesday and I have every single teacher that has crossed his path to thank.
I have seen my son grow from a small boy to a young man and I can tell you that it wasn't all due to his parents, we had help along the way and a good portion came from the classroom that was lead by a teacher!

Edward Andrysiak

5:00 pm on Monday, September 3, 2012

A job creator...anyone who makes money off of others goods or services or, anyone who spends money on others goods and services is in fact a job creator. Anyone who makes or causes the making of goods or the support mechanism for providing services is also a job creator. You might also say that when a flow of cash is created so has a job been created or supported. Because the flow of cash is the measure of job creation then you can assume the rich do indeed spend more and therefore create more jobs. The poor spend less and create less. Only if the rich hide the money under their mattress where it creates zero cash flow do they hamper growth. When they invest cash flows and creation of jobs happens....always! I believe Romney undertstands *effective, usefull and sustained* cash flow better than Obama.

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russ harrison

6:48 pm on Monday, September 3, 2012

Ed> yeah, Romney understands that amassing cash and keeping it from the general public insures success to those that hold that money.Goldmann Sachs. Bank of America, Lynch, Stearns, Exxon, BP, all know the same lesson.Get the cash,squeeze for more,and if you screw up,the taxpayers will be forced to bail your butt out.Obama explored that tactic once,and did not go through with it. Romney and his associates did it repeatedly.Fact is, they survived and flourished at a rate never before seen in history while the middle class and working class languished..at a rate never before seen in history.When Romney buys groceries,he too is a job creator.When Obama buys groceries,he's on furlough from his elected prison.
The fact is, the rich are NOT creating jobs. They're investing cash into things that only directly benefit them..and for good reason.The simply do not have to. When higher taxation is in place, they benefit by putting their money into investments that would shelter their money from high taxes..like payrolls and infrastructure and grants for works. When taxes are low,like they are currently,they invest in items that allow them the better profit, NOT payrolls and infrastructure that actually sustain and grow the economy.
The GOP idea that adhering to Smith's "The Invisible Hand" theory(business will return benefits to the public via jobs because they are bound by honor and common sense) doesn't work today.All you need do is look at the TARP results and the causes for it.

russ harrison

7:01 pm on Monday, September 3, 2012

Overseas accounts, tax avoidance investments, corporate welfare and refusal to pay back loans subsidized by the taxpayer. Return on investments for lobbying for corporate welfare, investing in foreign countries workforce, and demanding more breaks from taxation...and getting the elected officials into bed with personal interest groups are the new way of sticking your money under the mattress. Jobs are not being created from the private sector, and the jobs the government are trying to stimulate are being thwarted. That system of "tricle down" didn't work, won't work, and isn't ever going to work until we have a political party that will set aside its own agenda, ignore the the demands of the proletariat and will actually work with all parties to enhance the stability of the country. "With Liberty and Justice for all..." should not have to include a word about fairness, that should be accepted. When CEO's pay grow by 470% in 30 years and the average paycheck only grows by 8%, there is NOT fairness, NOT justice, and soon, there will not be freedoms. For to allow freedoms to continue, the ones that have benefited the most from the "trickle down' policies stand to lose their gains, and they simply will not tolerate that. And they don't have to. Voter apathy and sheep blindly following the best financed campaigns have insured the erosion of personal freedoms and restricted the ability to flourish of small business.
Hail to Government Sachs and the Corporate States of America.

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Kerry

10:59 pm on Monday, September 3, 2012

Russ, jobs are created by the private sector. More jobs can be created by the private sector if the govt leaves the business alone to create jobs. Businesses are currently holding back as they see an administration who is not in favor of business. They see an administration that wants to create burdens to them in creating jobs. Trickle down does work if left alone to work.

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russ harrison

8:03 am on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

Kerry,
Refresh your economics and business classes.Private sectors do creates jobs, but some private businesses create havoc unless regulated.Research the banking investment crisis of 2007-2008,then TARP,then Goldman Sachs, BoA, Enron, Solaryan,the illegal foreclosures, Exxon Mobile BP, etc.Oil price manipulation is due to more barrels being speculated upon than actually exist,which means the pricing to the end consumer is skewed against him.These aren't situations that benefit/sustain job growth,they are situations that wreck economies. And...they all occurred AFTER those industries were deregulated.
Add a zealous "win at any cost" strategy for the GOP and you see that 32 job stimulus bills were shot down.The GOP made the majority in voting AGAINST a bill that would allow tax breaks to bring companies back from overseas and voted FOR bills that allowed companies to write off their moving expenses when they left for distant shores.Why is that? Well,we don't have regulations to stop donors and lobbyists from buying our lawmakers.
Private sector benefits from Government spending. Build a road or a bridge and hundreds of people get paychecks, they then spread that paycheck around to hundreds of others, who also get a paycheck, and spread that paycheck,and so on.
Kerry,your tone indicates that you believe we must keep paying for big business welfare with the belief that the GOP has a messiah in Ryan and Romney.I'm a GOP that disagrees,and insulted by Romney's arrogance.

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russ harrison

8:14 am on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

Trickle down dos not work....its been given 38 years to succeed and it's only created a wider gap between the CEO and the line worker. During the 8 years time that "trickle down" was suspended, the economy flourished, bi partisan cooperation was prevalent, and unemployment was down and we had a surplus. Immediately after "trickle down" was re-introduced, deficit spending increased, bipartisan cooperation decreased (eventually leading to the incredibly stupid situation we have today) and unemployment began to rise as well as migration overseas for manufacturing companies and the related american jobs.
Instead of blindly following the rhetoric that Karl Rove and Grover Norquist put out, we need to end a message to our GOP party. That message is ENOUGH! No more!
I intend to send my message this way...I declare that as a GOP supporter, I will be voting for GOP candidates, but I will also NOT be voting for Romney/Ryan because they are just too damn arrogant and delusional...not to mention one of them, won't release his crooked taxes and screwed the taxpayers out of millions upon millions of dollars, and the other one wants to repeal women's rights and equal pay.
Step Right up folks, visit the 1932 World's Political Stage. Due to extensive and limitless financial lobbying, the venue has been moved from Germany and Italy to America. Free Kool-Aide with every vote! "Wercht mach frein!"

Edward Andrysiak

10:48 am on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

You can't have it two ways. Cash flow is the fuel in the tank! You can't however exclude the cash flow created when someone BUYS stock or BUYS a Cd or a treasury note or bond or anything else that costs money... that creates cash flow! The rich create more because they spend and invest more it is pure and simple. You can't pick and chooze which kind of purchase or "spending" qualifies...it ALL qualifies. The trick is to spend/stimulate on something that has "legs" and will create work for others for some time to come. Obama does not have a knack for picking winners. I think Romney has the experience to stimulate/invest and cut where needed to balance income and expences with growth for a smoooooth cash flow and sustained growth.

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russ harrison

11:19 am on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

Ed,
Romney doesn't have legs.He's a snake that stuck you and I with several bailouts that companies under his leadership forced.Even when given a workout plan, he failed to honor those agreements on seven different occasions.The first one(1992) cost the FDIC (that's your tax money anD mine) only 16.7 million.The second one cost the FDIC 28 million, and it gets worse. He is not a wealth creator for us,he is a debt creator.
Romney used "junk" bonds with Milleken to finance several of his projects, KNOWING that the bonds were junk.And...knowing that Milliken was under arrest and therefore would take the fall (he did).This type of financing effectively reduced cash flow and threatens other securities, plain and simple..
Take an economics class...the GOP stance is that yes, you can have it both ways.But.."cash" has been replaced by less liquid investments,like stocks or CD's. That hampers cash flow, not stimulates it. However..if you are wealthy enough,then cash flow will go to you via favorable taxation.The Ultra Rich do spend more,but not in ways that sustain a true economy.Whether you are a Keyensian, a Monetarist or a Follower of Friedman,(schools of economics) it is still the same.
Cash flow is the fuel in the tank and the fuel isn't there when the taxation is low on the ultra wealthy...period.They hoard it by doing exactly what you assert is creating cash flow.Take a basic macro economics/microeconomics class and you'll see some spending is bad,some good.Romney's is bad.

russ harrison

11:56 am on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

Explain to me again: If I am Ultra-Rich, How does buying shares in Goldman Sachs, or investing in CDs, or municipal bonds, or government securities backed mutuals create jobs? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I want to avoid paying taxes, those are pretty much the best places to put my money.I don't really see where the jobs are all that many there. If I'm uber wealthy, its not likely I'm going to risk my money on something risky like a factory in Illinois. If I want to invest in one of those, I'll spend my money overseas, like China. I get better tax breaks and I can hide some of my assets.
So...explain to me gain how this trickle down economics works to create jobs? Its been nearly 40 years and jobs have dwindled and wealth has gone predominantly to the ultra wealthy...creative a chasm between middle class and upper class that is obscene in its ratio (412:1 with the top 2% figured, Forbes Magazine)
But wait. We had 8 years where tax breaks weren't as generous and the economy grew and unemployment dropped.....but then we went back to trickle down, Bush tax cuts to the wealthy and Corporate welfare... and it went to heck.Seems something's wrong with the formula...its either in the tax largesse or the naive belief that the ones with the most will actually spend that money to sustain a decent economy for the rest of us. Naw....that's too obvious.

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Maria

4:30 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Regulations push companies out of this country, union wages keep pushing companies out of this country, union bosses receive double and triple pensions on the back of the workers let's look at both sides of the issue

Edward Andrysiak

2:42 pm on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

Russ, can you accept the concept that cash flow and jobs are created EVERY time money moves be that to buy goods or services or simply to BUY a CD, Stock Certificate, Bond, Savings Account or whatever and where ever...as long as money moves and is exchanged for something...a positive result occurs. Anything that exchanges money for something else creates a JOB for some one. The more money you have and "move"...the more jobs you help to create. It is quite simple! People with less money through no fault and with no criticizm, create fewer jobs.
Finally, i would ask if you cannot see the wisdom and practicality and reality of that...what system would you care to define here for us. What would you do? Forget minimizing your tax burden just tell us your "big plan" for fixing the economy.

p.s. remember too that every time money moves the government gets a piece of the cash flow/pie...ie taxes.

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Walt Hines

10:13 pm on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

Ed which government gets a piece of the cash? if these companies are moved overseas and pay nothing when the product or services are brought back who benefits then? If it comes down to the consumer then it's not much as sales are down across the board. Wouldn't we all benefit if the money was paid from the top? Bring the jobs back home and we all can benefit or tax the heck out of everything coming in.
Romney might be creating jobs but they certainly aren't here at home. This entire issue could all be cleared up if he released his tax returns. If the man has nothing to hide then release them already and be done with it. The ugly on this is only at the beginning stages and will haunt him in months to come.

Edward Andrysiak

2:54 pm on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

I'm having trouble selling my point. Let me try an example. Two boys get $10,000 inheritance. One decides to be popular and spends 10k for firweorks for his community. It is a rousing success and he collects 12k at the gate and everybody is impressed with the big bang and will talk about it for a year. The boy decides he likes the limelite and puts the 12k under his mattress untill next year to buy more fireworks. With the time value of money he will actually have 3% less to spend. He created virtually zero jobs!
Boy number two bought three acres of land for $9000.00 and spent $1000 for seeds. He planted a crop. Salvage seeds for next year and hired people to pick and take the crop to the market and collect for same. He paid the bank the mortgage payment on the 9K and had considerable cash left over. With that money he planned on buying more land next year and expand his business. He CREATED wealth for himself and jobs! He is a Romney like boy. The "happy Dan" is still enjoying the limelite for the great fireworks display he put on. He is an Obama like boy.
Keep it simple. Judge Obama and Romney on their past performance and see which one you think would have made you proud if you coughed up that inheritance.Vote for that one!

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John Carr

12:18 am on Wednesday, September 5, 2012

Ed, did Boy #1 buy his fireworks from Crazy Kaplans? Last time I checked fireworks were illegal in Illinois, Boy #1 is probably in jail. Maybe a more suitable hypothesis for a Patch based in Indiana.

In terms of Boy #2 if this is supposed to represent a young Mitt Romney I think you missed what he really did to buy this land. He paid $9,000 of his own money for the land but took out a $200,000 loan, because we all know you can't buy 3 acres of land for $9,000. The workers who farmed the land in previous years had their pay cut and their benefits slashed. However Boy #2 paid himself a handsome bonus year after year due to the bumper crops farmed on this land. However, because he took out so much debt, he told his creditors that he couldn't pay back the loan and asked them to take pennies on the dollar for the money he owed them. When the creditors would not accept those terms he declared bankruptcy leaving taxpayers holding the bag.

Google Bain Capital and Dade Behring, or Bain Capital and GS Industries or Bain Capital and AmPad or Bain Capital and KB Toys to figure out how great of a job Boy #2 did at creating jobs.

Or read this article http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-20120829 to figure out just how great of a job creator (actually job destroyer) Boy #2 was.

Oswego Resident

5:04 pm on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

Ed - Did boy No.1 above create any jobs?

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Kerry

10:11 am on Wednesday, September 5, 2012

Not proper sentence structure.

Oswego Resident

5:04 pm on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

Ed, Also, did the people that stumped up the cash to watch the fireworks create any jobs?
I'm asking because up above, you stated that any time cash "flows", jobs are created.
I need to know which boy created the most jobs with his money before I can judge which system is better.

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Edward Andrysiak

10:44 am on Wednesday, September 5, 2012

Those who coughed up the money did create a few jobs. The clean up crew, ticket taker and pyrotechnic as well as the "job" for boy one. The point however is that those jobs were temporary and died off as quickly as they were created. Remember that he also stuffed his cash under his bed to save it for next years fireworks buy. So, no cash flow resulted from that/no jobs going forward that year. To boot he lost 3% to inflation and will pay another 3 to 5% increased cost for the fireworks be buys next year.
Boy two can buy all the farm land he wants in Iroquois County for about three grand an acre and get a bank mortgage for most of it if he puts his 9k in the bank as collateral working his cost of money as the difference between his deposit interest and his mortgage interest cost. Leverage. Add all the "bennies" for farmers and this kid will do well. Remember, this is just and example to prove a point about cashflow and job creation. Don't pick it apart! It's the concept that is important to understand.

Kerry

5:04 pm on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

Russ, trickle down DOES work. Period. By the way, please refrain from your condescending attitute. You are not an expert in Economics, its obvious.

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John Carr

12:18 am on Wednesday, September 5, 2012

Kerry, are you implying that you are an expert in Economics? If so, then that is really funny?

BTW it is attitude not attitute,

Dave

7:53 pm on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

Kerry is right, trickle down does work. It's called a Monarchy. Peasants were extremely happy to get the scraps. Vote for Romney and we can get back to those glorious days.

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Edward Andrysiak

10:49 am on Wednesday, September 5, 2012

Dave...in trickle down no money is simply handed down for doing nothing. A good King would create reasons for giving money to his followers by creating jobs for which he would pay them for performing....cash flow! They, in turn would buy something they need, spend some of that money and someone else gets paid and on and on it goes. Trickle down *not* hand me down and not redistribution of wealth. Obama recognizes class distinction and lives to take from those who worked hard to earn and give it to those who do not work at all. In general. Vote the man who understands cash flow...Romney.

Kerry

10:13 pm on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

Russ is right, its called Socialism.

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RB

10:13 pm on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

God save the King ! Glorious days the Chosen One led all of us, peasants!

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Kerry

4:45 am on Wednesday, September 5, 2012

John, You failed to use a comma .

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Kerry

4:45 am on Wednesday, September 5, 2012

John , by the way, your writing is terrible. It is full of errors. You need to go back and check your basic school grammar book. This is an English class so i need to point out your errors. Its a shame that i have to speak down to you for you to understand.

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Kerry

4:49 am on Wednesday, September 5, 2012

Google Barack Obama and see how many businesses he created and led before becoming President. Google how many jobs he created. Btw , a community organizer is not a business.

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Kerry

7:08 am on Wednesday, September 5, 2012

John , are you implying that you are an English teacher or an Economics teacher? Its a joke, right?

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Oswego Resident

8:57 am on Wednesday, September 5, 2012

Kerry,
When one is trying to use the term "it is" in it's contracted form, the correct spelling would be "it's" and not "its" as you have repeatedly used.
HTH :)

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Kerry

10:11 am on Wednesday, September 5, 2012

You need to use commas correctly. By the way, you are posting in violation of Patch terms of use.

russ harrison

8:53 am on Thursday, September 6, 2012

Sheeesh, let's just look at the records and draw our own conclusions
1)Governor Romney's Massachussettes was FIRST in state debt
2)Governor Romney's Mass was 47th in job creation
3)Governor Romney allowed tax cuts for corporations and wealthy while raising taxes on Middle Class
4)Governor Romney Instilled Romney Care without funding
Mitt Romney:
1)Participated on the 2009 IRS Tax Evasion Amnesty program for illegal overseas financial activities
2) Has refused to release any returns prior to 2010, and has not completed his 2011 return
3) McCaine saw Romney's 1995-2007 taxes and chose Sarah Palin as his VP candidate
Businessman Romney:
1) Engineered 2 separate bailouts for Bain Capital/Bain &Company and then refused to abide by the agreements, sticking the FDIC (our tax money) with over15 million the first time and 32 million the second. How? By giving out HUGE cash bonuses that depleted the company's cash assets and made it improbable the company(s) would survive without a bailout. (1991-1992 was the first time,worked so well he did it over and over with a variety of companies)
2)Romney's Olympic management was referred to by the Utah Governor as "Crony Capitalism at its' worst"
3)Referred to as a "Vulture Capitalist" and debt creator by his peers in industry and politics.
Romney the Politician:Find 4 major issues that he has not reverse his position on repeatedly...it can't be done.
Romney himself: Impersonated police officers, beat up gay people, dodged draft.

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Kerry

9:36 am on Thursday, September 6, 2012

Your source for this is? Please be specific.

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russ harrison

2:28 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Kerry,
Look up Bank of New England. Cross reference with Bain Capital, Bain and Company, Mitt,FDIC and chapter 7 liquidation. That will explain how Romney used the expenditure of huge cash bonuses to Bain executives to force acceptance of 30 cents on the dollar for Bains debts. He also forced the founding partners ( that does not include the El Salvadore families that bought in during the initial start-up in 1984) to forgive debt and return almost 100 million to avoid the disaster of a buy-out. This happened 1990-93 time period. It'actually pretty slick when you get the gist of it. But...does that type of results indicate trustworthiness in a President? My opinion is "no".

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Kerry

4:01 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Logan, i am glad you agree that the good times during Clinton was due to the Republican control of Congress.

Kerry

9:52 am on Thursday, September 6, 2012

Obama's past record is simple, nothing. The only thing he ever started and ran was his car.

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Logansdad

2:49 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

So having a business background means something. Bush had a business background and also was a governor and look at the mess those resulted in.

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Kerry

2:50 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Logan, thats your opinion.

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Logansdad

2:53 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

No different than your opinion that business experience means something.

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Logansdad

2:55 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

You better check Romney's taxes. There is a reason why he will not release details. What is he hiding

Romney will not release his taxes. What we don't know about him is not good.

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Kerry

3:05 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Logan, I would rather have a President with a business background instead of one with a hazy background as a lowly community organizer.

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Logansdad

3:10 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

You can have Bush and Romney run your business then. Bush would run it in to the ground. Romney would come in and supposedly save it, give all the CEO's raises only to suck out any remaining equity and then file bankruptcy.

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Kerry

3:13 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Logan, look what Clinton did to the housing industry. Its down the toilet.

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Logansdad

3:17 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

And what did Clinton do exactly? The housing market was fine while Clinton was in office.

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Kerry

3:23 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Clinton required banks to give loans to those who could never normally get them. No money down, poor credit. This led to the housing collapse. It looked great while he was President. It took years to see the bad effect of that policy.

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Kerry

3:28 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

We got lucky in my area. We are one of the few areas in Illinois that the housing prices have held up alot better than most. No foreclosures and homes are selling. In fact , they are building new homes. News businesses have opened.

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Logansdad

3:36 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

So it was Clinton that wrote these laws that demanded the banks loan to those who could not afford them? Last time I checked it was Congress that passed the laws. Are you going to tell me that no Republican went along with these laws? If memory serves me correct, the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress during Clinton's presidency except for a short while after he was elected.

Edward Andrysiak

10:02 am on Thursday, September 6, 2012

Russ...you make a great case for us voters simply closing our ears to all the bullcrap and looking at the two men and their accompolishments and credentials and, making our decision from there! Why? Because we can't trust anyone to give us the truth. You for exapmle state that Romney screwed us tax payers via transactions with the FDIC. In fact the FDIC is not funded by us taxpayers. It is indeed a private insurance corporation formed years ago under the direction of Congress to safeguard depositors money. It is not a government organization. It collects premiums from the banks, sells foreclosed assets for cash and maintains balances mandated to keep it safe as a corporation. Now, only IF, and it has never happened, the FDIC were to run out of money...it has a one billion dollar line of credit with the Government wherein it could borrow needed funds. That line of credit has never been used to my best recollection. The FDIC goes back to the 1934 or 35 era. So, when one of your "facts" turn out to be pure bullcrap...I have to assume the rest of what you post is suspect as well. Don't take this as a personal attack because it is not meant that way. Rather, it makes the point that we voters can't believe too much of what we hear and have to go on basics. Pick the MAN best qualified and vote accordingly. Ignore all else. The authority for my FDIC comments come from my days as a director of a local bank...I am sure the rules have not changed.

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russ harrison

10:43 am on Thursday, September 6, 2012

Ed,
The management of funds and insurance against failure is the job of the FDIC. The FDIC was a direct result of government working with public interests to create a safeguard. Romney entered into a workout with the FDIC and other creditors in 1990 and then, instead of working hard to make he payments, poison pilled his company to force yet another allowance The end result was almost everyone got screwed. The FDIC took it in the shorts. The funds, whether or not the FDIC is a private enterprise or not, are still partly funded by taxpayers money in addition to the revenue vehicles you mention. That means, we got screwed along with the rest of his creditors. Its like saying that the Fed or Fannie and Franky are solely independent of government influence and taxpayers money. It ain't necessarily so and that's common knowledge.
The rest of Romney's record is matter of public knowledge. All one has to do is do a search and plug in what you are looking for and the data is there. The start-up capital from Central American investors with questionable pasts, the IRS complaints about companies he ran using questionable accounting procedures, the ranking of his state regarding education, job performance, etc.
Draw your own conclusions, but I'd say if he doesn't win the big one in November, we'll be seeing quite a bit of press regarding his past.

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russ harrison

9:25 am on Friday, September 7, 2012

Ed>Thanks for your input as a banker.FDIC steps in when a bank is in big BIG trouble.They can get in big BIG BIG trouble by financing businesses in a big BIG way,using their depositors funds.We give them our money,they use it to make us a bit of money by doing bank stuff,(make loans,collect interest.Simple.
If a bank decides to make loans of substantial amounts to a business they do so with the condition that the client has demonstrated ability to repay that loan.If that client (MIchael Bain's secondary company) gives false information or REFUSES to make payments,that lender has problems...BIG problems!Can't remain solvent if your obligations can't be met. Can't meet your obligations if your "whale" client refuses to pay or can't pay.Enter FDIC.
FDIC does more than just insure deposits.When they take over bank, it does NOT mean the loans the bank have out are forgiven.FDIC becomes the creditor.In 1990 the FDIC got involved with a workout plan with Bain Capital to try to recoup assets for the depositors.Mike Bain sent Mitt Romney over from Bain &Co. to try to save the other Bain company from BK. Mitt did..by working out a plan to avoid BK (which would be disasterous to all parties)Then Mitt renigged on the plan,dispersed Bains cash assets as bonus to executives and guaranteed Bain's failure unless the FDIC and other creditor accepted 30 cents on the dollar or they'd kill Bain off. (1992) That is how FDIC,us,creditors,and taxpaying depositors got screwed.Research it.

russ harrison

10:56 am on Thursday, September 6, 2012

For those interested, there are Bain Capital and Bain &Co documents, with Mitt Romneys signature available to the public. Obtained under FoIA, those documents have had some substantial dedactions (legally done) done to them before they were released(legally done). However, the general message is there, along with some disturbing details (most notably the use of cash bonuses to force better terms for an agreed upon bankruptcy diversion).
Do a search, read the materials (and a few very well written articles from both sides of the camp and draw your own conclusion. You can also request data from the SEC, FDIC, National Governors Convention, Harvard Review, etc etc etc but its probably just easier to internet search it. I'd be leery of really slanted opinions and conspiracy theory wacko's, he seems to have more than his fair share.
My personal opinion is that while Mitt may have not done things in business that were totally illegal, he certainly did things many people and agencies find questionable.
BTW> I'd have voted for McCain this time, but never for Romney/Ryan. That's choosing the steak, not the sizzle.

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Maria

4:36 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

I agree research both sides except one side has never released anything to research and no one is screaming for his records, so why act like the other guy is hiding something then, the only thing I have to go by is the last three years and 8 months of his administration and make my decision from there

russ harrison

9:52 am on Friday, September 7, 2012

Happy Anniversary!4 years ago this month is when the financial collapse that led to all these foreclosures,bailouts,and near miss depression became public knowledge! Whoohoo!Cheers for 2008!
September was a great month...Loehmann collapsed,Freddie and Fannie/Franky imploded and had to be bailed out,Wall Street got caught with their assets out, my own retirement lost over 30%, gosh, what great memories.Do you remember the thrill of watching MSNBC and Bloomberg commenting as your stocks dropped faster than an Olympic sprinter on Meth?Remember how 750 billion dollars, (which later turned into 1.3 TRillion) were handed out to big banking so that they could continue to make loans in order to keep the economy from crashing?Remember how those banks refused to make the loans but kept paying bonuses and buying each other stocks up...those kooky pranksters,they sure fooled us!
Reminisce about those days of watching furniture loaded into trucks as friends and neighbors moved from their homes,the advancement in technology that allowed semi-illiterate workers to be paid as "highly specialized foreclosure specialists" as Robo-Signer whistled while it worked...fun times.
September of 2008 bought us the acknowledgement of "Government Sachs",where Wall Street was allowed to "self discipline" itself over fraudulent and illegal activity. Remember how we laughed at their antics and waited to see what came next?The GOP hosted the festivities.Bring the GOP guys back in 2012, it'll be fun!

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Maria

4:38 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

again who benefited millions of taxpayer dollars and sweet mortgage deals from Fannie Mae and other mortgage companies, Range, Emanuel, Dodd, Frank. Range and Emanuel drew millions of dollars in bonuses, that is not a lie it's disgusting

russ harrison

1:59 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Ed> Now that you have had time to research Bain and the FDIC problem, still think you're being fed hogwash?
Here's another item: As Governor of Massachussettes, Romney drafted the plan to outsource the State of Massachussettes' help desk to India. I can't even spell Massachussettes, so how does someone from Calcutta know what to tell some US citizen what to do about an issue in Boston?
I've read and reread Romney's website, particularly the "issues" area. I suggest you do the same. I came away feeling like I was just at a car dealership that had no cars to show me, no brochures, no details,not even a color selection chart or a list of available options and the cost. The guy couldn't tell me when it would be delivered, what my final costs would be, or what type of fuel it would run on.But...by golly he knew what I needed and that I was going to love it...but he couldn't guarantee the car would ever be built. Then he demanded I write him a check before he'd let me know he answers to my questions...because that's what other people have done. But he wouldn't let me see his sales records and assured me that the bad references and complaints about the cars he previously sold was from when he was at a different company...but he still know what's best for me and my family because he would never have made so much money if he didn't know what he was doing....And my faithful protector, Mr. GOP, recommended I do business with him.

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Kerry

2:59 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Logan, you better check as to why Obama will not release info on HIS background. What is he hiding? Check out Obama and Tony Rezko. Bill Ayres too.

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russ harrison

4:32 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

My goodness! The President may have skeleton in his closet? What are the chances that a politician hasn't released everything every single person wants to see. Is it because Mitt got better grades than him in college? lol. Is it because he got campaign donations from a few unsavory characters? What a surprise!
Difference is, Tony Rezko has the common sense not to run for President...he'd have to release his tax records and that would show his numerous donations o both Democrats AND the GOP...

Kerry

3:17 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Logan, Romney believes in capitalism , Obama does not. Romney will restore America as a great nation, unlike Obama and his bowing to officials of foreign countries during one of his many his appology tours.

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russ harrison

4:28 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Obama believes in capitalism. Just not crony capitalism and corporate welfare...he has actually made it easier on small businesses by removing some burdens and reducing some taxation, giving incentives to hire veterans and others .
Open a business today and then ask someone what it was like 30 years ago...you'll choose today. Or...maybe not....if your too busy brewing tea and waiting for the Great White Hope to sell you more "decrease the deficits by giving tax cuts" cookies, you'll miss he boat.

Kerry

4:02 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Logan ,you are confusing laws with regulations. Huge difference.

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Logansdad

4:06 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

So which specific "regulation" are you talking about?

Kerry

4:07 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Logan, thanks for your comments. I respect your opinion even tho i do not agree with you. Have a good day.

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Logansdad

4:13 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Why run away Kerry, we were just getting somewhere. I wanted to see which piece of regulation you were talking about.

Edward Andrysiak

4:10 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Russ...reformed burgulars become consultants and do a great job teaching law enforcemnt how to catch criminals and stop future crimes from occuring. If Romney is as good as you say about dodging and weaving his way through the loop holes...I have to assume HE WILL DO A GREAT JOB OF CLOSING THEM!
As an aside...Obama released his White House receipe for beer recently. I'm waiting for the one on the cool aid!

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russ harrison

4:24 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

you are joking with that comment, right? You are actually saying Romney is your man because he IS as good at crookedness as I said he was? And you actually believe he'd close loopholes? It come across as though you researched his exploits and rather than admit he's far from a saint, you're now advocating for him because hes a sinner.
BTW> The White House releasing a beer recipe that was missing a key ingredient was making fun of Mitt's refusal to release any tax returns, as is in the only year he actually released was incomplete...it was a joke...get it?

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Scott Jacobs

4:46 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Quite possibly one of the most delusional comments in recent memory made here by Ed. Yeah that's right, Mittens is going to close the loopholes that will have a negative effect on all of his billionaire donors. Keep on making these incredibly dense assumptions Ed!

Try to be honest with yourself for a second, if Obama did these same things, not release his taxes, offshore accounts, sticking it to lenders and taxpayers would you be singing the same praises that you are heaping on Mittens? Of course you wouldn't, you are blinded by a party and its platform. No matter what your party's candidate does it is a GREAT JOB in your words. Partisan politics at its finest.

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Kerry

7:25 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Ed ,i agree 100 % . The problem is that we are on a radical left wing site. They are close minded. They will never agree with anything other than left wing radical ideas.

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Logansdad

7:32 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

The Patch is a radical left wing site? Thanks for the laugh. Is any site that doesnt share your views a radical left winged site?

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Kerry

7:42 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Logan, i never said patch is a left wing site ,YOU said that. We are on a moveon.org site. You cant be that off to know what site you are posting on.

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Logansdad

9:44 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

I never said the Patch was a left winged site. I asked a simple question. You don't know how to read. How exactly is the Patch associated with Moveon.org

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Pat McCabe

12:15 am on Saturday, September 8, 2012

Have you lost your mind Kerry? You are posting on the Patch not on moveon.org. I think you are losing the struggle with all of the different voices in your head. You can't even keep straight what site you are posting on.Your rants show what a bunch of nutjobs right wing internet trolls are. You seriously need help, you must be losing all sense of reality because you can't come to terms that Mitt is being exposed as a fraud. He will lose the election because he is beholden to his billionaire donors like the Koch Brothers and Sheldon Adelson. They can throw away their millions on in but they only get one vote.

Kerry

4:17 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Ok logan , one more time then i have to go. One thing i learned in college was to do research. I will do it for you. You simply need to google ....Clinton regulation on home loans. Also look up the " Community Reinvestment Act". See its easy to find all the info you need.

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Logansdad

4:47 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Kerry,

The act was passed in 1977. Based on what I read, any chnages to the act needed congressional approval.

If you read the link here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act
and go to the section titled Alleged relation to 2008 financial crisis., it shows there was not a relation to the changes suggested during the Clinton Administration and the house crisis.

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Kerry

7:27 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Logan, the info is there. You know it is. You just dont want to admit i am right.

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Logansdad

7:41 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Kerry if you have a better site that says the changes Clinton made caused the housing problems I am open to hear it. The information I presented did not say that. You just want to believe it.

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Kerry

10:45 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Look at your comments at 7:30 and 9:44. You associate the two. You need to read.

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Pat McCabe

12:19 am on Saturday, September 8, 2012

There is no way that you graduated from a college Kerry. Maybe an internet diploma mill but any college that graduates someone like you that literally can't spell or write would lose their accreditation.

russ harrison

4:42 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Kerry,
yep. Google gets all the info you need, except whether Romney cheated on his taxes...or even paid any prior to 2010. It will, however, point out his missing FBAR report and the accounting irregularities at Bain, as well as disclose that he received income from "capital gains" (taxed at 15%) that the IRS is arguing was actually earned income (taxed at 35%)...
There are some very complimentary items about Mitt as well. He's given to a variety of charities, appears to honestly believe his actions are above reproach, and has actually had his expertise with the leveraged buy-out Vs hostile take-over taught in advanced business schools.
Research goes both ways Kerry. You can't just stop with one position, you have to check both sides and draw your concussion.(yeah, I spelled it right!lol)

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Kerry

7:29 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

So? I think you better check the back ground of Obama. The only thing he ever started was his car.

Kerry

7:44 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Logan, i tried to be polite with you but now i think you are just a joke. You understand you just cant and will admit it. You are a waste of time to have any debate with.

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Logansdad

9:47 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Is that the best you can do Kerry, run away. You said Clinton actions caused the hosing problems. When I asked for you to prove that, you couldn't. And somehow I am the one that has a problem debating. I provided proof to the contrary. You should be able to support your claim Kerry, but it is obvious that you can't.

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Logansdad

6:08 am on Saturday, September 8, 2012

"You are a waste of time to have any debate with."

But yet you are the one who keeps responding to my posts. Just like Romney and Ryan, you are a liar and don't let facts get in the way of your claims.

oswego308watch

9:13 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

Romney this, Obama that, blah, blah, blah. Obama won't release any documents and when he does release a "birth certificate", experts find out it's a fake.
Romney is a smart businessman, but claiming that he never got anything from the government is an outright lie.

Yet, here you are bickering amongst yourselves and the elites are laughing their asses off while the whole ship takes on water.

The government media complex is slowly but surely turning each one of you into a serf, and you don't even realize what's going on. Republican vs. Democrat is a handy diversion to keep you from figuring out that your so-called Constitutional rights are quickly fading away. Don't believe it?

Stop this madness and start questioning why:

*The TSA has yet to capture a single terrorist, still they continue to jam their hands down the pants of children and elderly--and are now moving into bus stations and highways.

*Maybe you should start wondering why the DHS is deporting aliens at a record pace while at the same time allowing unfettered illegal entry.

*It might do you some good to look into how 2 airplanes can destroy 3 buildings.

*With our current unemployment situation, why do we continue to import foreign workers at an alarming rate, mostly from countries that have cultural values contrary to ours?

*Why 50 years of the Great Society has absolutely destroyed the so-called urban "poor?"

And so on....

You are all being played for fools. Wake up.

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Logansdad

6:07 am on Saturday, September 8, 2012

"Look at your comments at 7:30 and 9:44. You associate the two. You need to read."

Kerry, you are the one that needs to read:

You: "The problem is that WE ARE ON a radical left wing site." (The only site we are on now is the Patch)

Me: "The Patch is a radical left wing site? "

You: "Logan, i never said patch is a left wing site ,YOU said that. We are on a moveon.org site. You cant be that off to know what site you are posting on."

It is obvious you don't know how to read or can't understand English. I never associated the Patch with moveon.org. That was you. Another thing you have failed to provide proof for in addition to explaining how the Patch is "a radical left wing site."

I am beginning to think you have multiple personalities because you come across as a crazy person.

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Kerry

2:09 pm on Saturday, September 8, 2012

I dont worry one bit about health care. My health care has been free for over 30 years. You need to ask Nancy Pelosi if the help you need will be covered[ we have to pass it to see whats in it] lol

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Kerry

2:12 pm on Saturday, September 8, 2012

By the way ,you never answered my question. You stated a "hosing" problem. Whats a hosing problem?

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Logansdad

2:38 pm on Saturday, September 8, 2012

You are good with Google. Look it up. It's in the same place where you found The Patch is associated with moveon.org.

Kerry

2:13 pm on Saturday, September 8, 2012

I realize that you are posting under 2 different names here. Split personality?

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Logansdad

2:39 pm on Saturday, September 8, 2012

Just like all your other claims, you have no support to back it up, Carrie.

Kerry

4:10 pm on Saturday, September 8, 2012

Just like your claims, You have no support to back them up ,Logi

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Kerry

4:11 pm on Saturday, September 8, 2012

So ,whats a hosing problem that you posted? You cant answer so you run.

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russ harrison

8:40 am on Sunday, September 9, 2012

I'm curious about the hosing problem as well. If the gubernet would give us better hoses, we could grow better tomaters...

Kerry

4:13 pm on Saturday, September 8, 2012

Yes i am better with Google than you are, its evident. Thanks for the complement.

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Jeri

5:42 pm on Saturday, September 8, 2012

I think every complainer here should run for an office. Just simply do something else than blogging.

Every job has a job description and a pay grade scale associated with it. Those elements create a job value. This can range from a retail clerk to a physician in a hospital. Everyone also has the opportunity to succeed in their life. Whether it be going back to school or presenting oneself as an ideal candidate for a job. My oldest daughter interviews applicants for various levels of jobs and the most laughable and FACT there are many are whiners and complainers and only want to work limited hours in order to retain government benefits. Self improvement is not a common goal at this time in history. Compare Jimmy Carter to our current history.

People that want something for nothing are really emotional. Just like when my kids were 2.

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Jeri

5:44 pm on Saturday, September 8, 2012

What other people earn is not mine.

What other people take from my taxes and do as they may...is of interest.

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Walt Hines

3:04 pm on Sunday, September 9, 2012

Dying and paying taxes is something we all have to do at one time or another. Romney is not exempt from these 2 things or is he? Show your darn tax returns already or is it because you're a tax dodger.
Last time I checked we were all Americans and that means we must support this country through taxes. Those people who hide their money overseas ( Republican's and Democrat's) and make the choice not to support this country should be deported to the country that their money supports. The more I read up on Romney the more disgusted I am with the republican party. No wonder McCain wanted nothing to do with him.

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russ harrison

7:30 pm on Sunday, September 9, 2012

Whya doesn't someone just put a muzzle on Romney? This morning, on a national TV interview, he stated that he would keep many of the parts of "ObamaCare"...Then, this afternoon, said the "whole thing (ObamaCare) is a travesty and insult to the american people"...and people wonder why we older Republicans are saying no more to following the party line like sheep?
My gosh, even on this venue one of the most stalwart Romney proponents reduced his justification for voting Romney to basically stating that it takes a crook to catch a crook...so that's why Romney would be a good choice. Sheeesh...maybe by 2016 half these idiots will be gone and we can take the GOP back to what it once was, a proud, group of people motivated for the public good that would work together with others to benefit this country...;not this gang of thugs (Norquist,Rove,Ryan,Kochs) that will lie, cheat, and screw over their own mother just to win an election.

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NotBuyingIt

8:55 pm on Sunday, September 9, 2012

russ, that kool-aid you're drinking must be very pink indeed... I've read your hate filled rants about Romney and republicans. Haters like yourself are the reason this country doesn't come together on issues... Get a grip on yourself, calm down, stop drinking the Kool-aid and vote Romney... I guarantee you will feel alot better about life in general... You seem kind of up-tight dude...

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russ harrison

7:29 am on Monday, September 10, 2012

Not Buying It>
There is nothing in my posts that is hateful, nor ranting. I have merely pointed out what we've found about Romney, when it's happened, who was involved, and where others might go to research...what is it exactly that you think is ranting or hate filled? Could it be that I am sick of the GOP's leadership and tactics? Or is it because I will vote both for GOP and Democratic candidates instead of blindly following whatever propaganda Karl Rove, or Grover Norquist or the Kochs or even the Democrats want to try an shove down my throat.I realize that independent thinking tends to frighten tea-baggers and hard corps republicans What they scream as "unjust rants" most sensible people would call a discussion or even doing basic math. Why most people want to see taxes from a Presidential candidate the blind sheep will just trust in order to get the "black guy" out of office.
As for drinking "Pink" Kool-Aide, I find it insulting that as a career NCO I would be accused of being a commie by a person that does not even have the fortitude of their beliefs to use their own name, Not Buying It Tonight...or wait!That's a trick from Ann Romney!Didn't she say "We will not release our taxes because it would just give the opposition more ammunition to use against us..."
Perhaps that is why you folks that so vehemently support the tax dodger candidate don't bother to post your actual names for the most part.
Romney/Ryan 2012: Don't Ask Questions and Give Us Your Damn Vote!

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NotBuyingIt

4:56 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

russ, apparently you don't read your rants, you just spew and go... Yeah, they are hate filled and your Kool-aid IS pink...
Logansdad, I am merely pointing out that haters and ranters like russ poison the water for any possible coming together. It's the unnecessary inflammatory ranting and raging that makes it hard to come together... just sayin'...

Logansdad

9:12 pm on Sunday, September 9, 2012

Do you honestly think the country will come together if Romney is elected. Right now the vote is split evenly pretty much. The country will be divided until 2016.

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NotBuyingIt

4:52 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

way past 2016... there needs to be some semblance of civil discourse no matter who wins... the left just seems so angry and demonizes and rants and is full of personal attacks... it's kinda creepy...

russ harrison

7:45 am on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Not buying it> hiding behind a false name is something that Romney's puppet masers don't even do...grow a set and put your name up there with the big boys and girls instead of hiding behind the curtain. That way, your comments may actually have some consideration. BTW> what color Kool-Aide do fascists and proletarians drink? Before you answer, look up the actual meaning of fascism, NOT the often cited and inaccurate meaning. In the meantime, here's a few bumper stickers you might want to display:
Romney/Ryan 2012 "Because the Ledbetter Act Should Never Have Happened!"
Romney/Ryan 2012 " Vowing to End Women's Suffrage!" (women's right to vote act)
Romney 2012 "Best President India Will Ever Have!"

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Edward Andrysiak

11:10 am on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Russ, are you a paid poster working for the Huffington Post who own this liberal Obama site?

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Wally Pickens

11:50 am on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Russ, you must be alittle foggy in the brain, you must have forgotten about Obama being FORCED to release his financial statements by the Dems, and his birth certificate that was FAKE. Obama went to China asking for money for bailouts, then proceeded to dispurse these funds with NO set of rules to pay it back, which GM failed to make their first payment. Our government needs to go to Ford Motor Company, and ask them how to get out of this mess. Ford took NO bailout money, restructured their company and created over 1,000 jobs just in Illinois by building the new Explorer HERE IN THE U.S.

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russ harrison

4:11 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Wally> You're the guy that stated that my dead children Liam and Pax were alive and well and attending Longbeach Elementary School...how about dropping some flowers out at the Oswego Cemetery for them....? (fill in the blank)

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Wally Pickens

8:34 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Russ, sorry but your wrong again, when your wife Christa, was running for treasurer of H&S at Hunt Club, SHE stated that she had 5 kids in school and that Liam and Pax were going to Long Beach. I did not make that statement, just wanting to know who was lying, you or your wife.

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russ harrison

9:25 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Wally Pickens> You are a vile person to continually attack my wife and I by bringing our dead sons up in this public forum. I think my wife and I both know which 2 of our children are dead, which 2 attend Hunt Club and which one attends Longbeach. She has never bought up Liam and Paxton at anyHunt Club meeting other than as an aside to another parent that had lost their child.You are aware of this fact and have again chosen to open these wounds. Attacking parents over dead children to discredit them is as low as a person can possible stoop.
You are a vile person to continually bring my dead children into a public forum to further your own agenda. You are without a doubt, a loathesome coward that has intentionally and repeatedly brought up a tragic incident in order to further your miserable little life. Go back into hiding under your rock you miserable excuse or a human being.

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Wally Pickens

8:06 am on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

Russ, your about as dumb as they come, look back at your posts, YOU brought up your kids, NOT ME. You are worthless to say that I 'm attacking you, you made false statements about my children going to Hunt Club. But anyway, I now know that both you and your wife are liars, your wife lies about the family, and you lie about knowing how to do construction.

Edward Andrysiak

11:08 am on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Why Obama does not have what it takes! He came into office with glaring problems to solve. Debt, housing problems and a failing economy. Now, anybody with a half of an ounce of savy would have looked at the problems looming, prioritized them and set about a fix. This especially when he had the majoirty in Congress and was bullet proof on any decisions. What did he do? He launched Obama care and used up two years and created a program we cannot afford. Not something that we really needed at this time. He is simply in over his head. He does not know how to lead. He has hundreds of folks in congress and could have build teams to work on solutions to more than one looming problem at a time. Instead he blew more money and created even more for us to worry about. He has got to go. Anybody would be better!

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Logansdad

3:25 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

"He launched Obama care and used up two years and created a program we cannot afford. "

According to the CBO, Obamacare will reduce the deficit over a 10 year period. With the price of healthcare going up and with healthcare companies finding ways not to insure people, I think Obamacare aka Romneycare is good for the public.

russ harrison

4:20 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Ed> you mean I could actually get paid for these posts?

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russ harrison

4:41 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Why is it that if a middle class group of people unite to gain a social advantage, like reduced costs and universal access to health care, some people call it "communism". But if ultra wealthy people act to stop the effort to meet that common need, and claim that "Free Markets" without regulation will make those goals attainable and affordable, we call that "capitalism"?
And the next question...what exactly do we have and what are we looking at getting?..and how?

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russ harrison

5:01 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

I'm just wondering, if Obama mandated "free" beer to match free contraception, would we be arguing so much?

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russ harrison

5:44 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

When you choose not to vote, you are NOT protesting...you are, in fact, surrendering.

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russ harrison

5:59 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

I love Mitt Romey's question" Are you better off today than you were 4 years ago?" Well, if you want my answer Mitt, you go first. Show us that you are worse off today than 4 years ago...let's see your 2008 and 2009 tax returns. Or is your divine being that resides on the planet Kolob (he actually believes this) keep your returns in his magic underwear? (which Mitt also believes in)
Who wants to jump in first? LDS (Mormons) members not intended for insult. Mitt on the other hand...free ball!

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Walt Hines

6:56 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

It's time the tax dodger shows us those returns. I'm still waiting to hear what his plan is for this country. All I've heard him do is flip flop on his views, agrees with Obama doesn't agree with Obama, which one are we in agreement with this week.

Russ where can I get one of those stickers? I know a lot of people who'd buy the president of India sticker. Give him time he'll sell this country to the highest bidder!

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russ harrison

8:05 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Walt> I should have printed those myself, by next week they'll be all over the place! Here's another one: Romney/Ryan 2012: "Because they won't tell us their plan until we elect them..."
Romney/Ryan 2012: Get Back in the Kitchen Woman!
and my favorite if they lose:
" Ryan lost...now he's gonna' shoot you in the balls with an arrow..."

Eileen

7:32 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Russ, just curious. What does your vision of a more 'just' America look like? Please provide detail.

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russ harrison

7:59 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Eileen> Its actually pretty simple A just America goes back to when I was younger, when people went to jail if they swindled hard working people.Today companies like BoA and GS can robosign foreclosures, put thousands of people out of their homes without actual cause,admit they screwed up,and get a paltry fine for what they did while keeping the profit.A just America would have Exxon,BP,and GE actually paying taxes instead of paying zero taxes and still receiving millions in refunds.A just America would have punished those that bought about the 2007 and 2008 meltdown,that rigged interest rate on school bonds and that sold worthless investments to pensions and then bet against them.
A "just" America would not continue to subsidize corporate welfare, would not move 92% of the economic growth of the last 30 years into less than 5% of the population while actually decreasing the economic health of the middle class. And a "just" America would certainly not make it more efficient to spend money lobbying against regulations than actually fixing the problems.
Corporations are NOT people,WE are!We should have a fair stake in our government. We should have a "just"say in what social programs we allow, and which ones we don't, but we should not have people dying because they cannot find an insurance company to cover them, nor should we have children suffering diseases that could have been prevented with a decent meal once a day.Why should you pay more in taxes than Exxon? Is it just?

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Dave

8:34 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

I can't for Kerry's response. "Its" going to be great!

russ harrison

8:29 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Ryan will begin running his congressional election ads in Wisconsin on Wednesday morning... he's running for congress AND VP at the same time...it can be done, but its just NOT done...how glad is Mitt now?

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russ harrison

9:06 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

You just can't make this stuff up folks! Follow this logic: Obama wants to waive certain beaurocratic red tape for states that are trying to put welfare recipients to work as part of their program..that means that the White House is trying to make it easier for states to put welfare recipients to work, pretty simple, right? Streamline or eliminate some federal versus state barriers and put poor people to work. Simple.
But...and this is where I get confused...House Ways and Means Chairman Dave Camp (R Mich) and Senator Orrin Hatch (R Utah) of the Senate Finance Committee are asking fellow Republicans to vote to block those measures by forcing a simple majority vote in the Senate by invoking the Congressional Review Act...which will effectively keep those welfare recipients from working in some states...which is what the GOP keeps complaining about, welfare people not having to work.
So, the White House claims they are not trying to waive work requirements, only make it easier for states to require work for welfare. But Camp and Hatch want to torpedo that idea...I thought we wanted welfare recipients to work, or did I miss that part of the GOP line?
Did the GOP Gurus suddenly decide welfare good, working bad? Or has Hatch and Camp finally lost their collective marbles and truly believe we're going to blindly follow them no matter what it does to the economy? Oh wait! They already decided we were going to do whatever they decided...as long as Obama gets gone.Silly us.

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